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| Author | What went wrong? 1000 gold, controversial penalty. |
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| +1 | | Wurmtog i showed .ru rules and there is point - forbidden to especially put your armies under attack. On .com we have not this point, so its not forbidden here. | for MoonVampire:
And we ask you to see post #2
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1863398&page=0#241486
The rules are given here on COM. Thus they have to be upheld and followed.
for chausinho:
If a player is purposing allowing his units to be killed by another player to benefit the other player, that's punishable.
1) Shared hunt ??
Unless you cause the other player to lose on purpose ( purposely not attacking the AI, refusing to move) or cause harm to a fellow player (shooting him using Volley, mass poisoning his units), there is no offence against another player
2) Hunters helps ??
Unless you lose on purpose to another player (quite hard in a assisted hunt)or cause harm to a fellow player (shooting him using Volley, mass poisoning his units), there is no offence against another player
3) Duel/ambush???
.
.
if you are sure you will win,... and you win, just allow opponent to kill some more of your creatures is illegal
Yes.
4) Group battle??? if at the end of the combat you are sure your group can win,.. can you wait with your grandmaster bowmen for let your teammates earns some fsp more or shall you kill the others ?? if you wait and its turn from your opponent he can kill some teammate creatures and earn some fsp more,....
Situational, but anything that causes a benefit to someone else at your expense or cause yourself benefit at the expense of others is bad sportsmanship | Of course we have dictatorship, haven't you noticed yet? ^_^
Rules are different on a per-word basis, but are not *that* different: I'd say, as one would expect, than .ru ones are longer and slightly better explained than here, but I don't see any different *meaning*.
Browse here and you'll see striking similarities:
http://www.heroeswm.ru/clan_info.php?id=2073
https://www.lordswm.com/clan_info.php?id=7373
Now, show me WHERE there is a rule wording difference between both servers that would lead Kusika NOT to be punished here WHILE being punished on .ru.
If you can quote me this rule, I'm ready to accept that the ".ru case law" doesn't apply here on this case, and even give Kusika excuses.
If you can't, I'll just quote Wurmtog - this is ridiculous dont you see it ?
(And I could have taken a worse quote from him) | ¤ Staged combats, paid-for combats, deliberate loses, bad sportsmanship, giveaway combats.
- first infringement, 5,000 gold
- second infringement, 20,000 gold
- third infringement, 50,000 gold
- fourth infringement = character block.
There is possibility of premature block in exceptional cases.
Information incorrect or incorrect fine (1k).
Staged combats leading one of the parties to losing a priori will be punished for. A staged combat by definition is one where any one of the parties or party members intentionally loses to the other for any reason different from having technical problems with access to the game; battle with not full armies (excluding battles with lower lvl opponent to make fair battle); battles in "" (russiand word meanin intensional losing) when player specially put his armies under attack, behave not correctly in mind of behavior of player such lvl. Instigation to losing a combat is also forbidden.
According to that rule all the players who travel with 1 stack of 1 troop or with no troops should be punished. Never heard of anyone being punished for that. So, the .com rules interpretations shouldn't be the same as .ru rules interpretations.
But, why everybody is jumping on Kotrin? Because he reported his interpretation? There are many reports which have their own interpretations, but the admins didn't take any action. At the end of the day, the admins decide who is to be punished or not, don't they? | Post 2 show as lines from info of keepers clan. Not from general game rules. I'm lvl 12, not so bad player, read rules many times and some time be on forum. And only today i found for myself that clan #373 LWM - Keepers. Violations in tavern and battles can intent new rules! oO Why they don't write this "rules" in main section? Becose this must do administration or trusted peoples. Or just put line - all rules from info of this clan is the same power as main rules.
Now its not such. So Kotrin had no rights to punish for this "break the lules" | Because here this punishment came out of nothing. No warnig for this no sing for it.
And it isnt ridiculous since here we are all by ourselfs and have to trust each other. | No warnig for this no sing for it.
Actually, the penalty was a warning... *Sigh* | 45
Ur not correct Kotrin IS Keeper in Tavern so he is reporting, deciding and gives fines himself without consulting anyone. | | kotrin drop it they won't understand :) | for Kotrin:
"Rules are different on a per-word basis, but are not *that* different: I'd say, as one would expect, than .ru ones are longer and slightly better explained than here, but I don't see any different *meaning*.
Browse here and you'll see striking similarities:
http://www.heroeswm.ru/clan_info.php?id=2073
https://www.lordswm.com/clan_info.php?id=7373 "
Its not different? In .ru rules administration show what is forbidden, i showed it here. In .com rules administration showed what is forbidden:
3.16. Staged combats leading one of the parties to losing a priori will be punished for. A staged combat by definition is one where any one of the parties or party members intentionally loses to the other for any reason different from having technical problems with access to the game. Instigation to losing a combat is also forbidden.
This means that players forbidden to intensionally lose, not to give some FSP to opponent. Punishmets were for unreal on this server rule - all that is not written is not rule! Keepers have no right to write new rules, but they (he? we have only 2 keepers=( ) do this. So is it diktature? | According to that rule all the players who travel with 1 stack of 1 troop or with no troops should be punished. Never heard of anyone being punished for that. So, the .com rules interpretations shouldn't be the same as .ru rules interpretations.
Touchy subject (and slightly off-topic). In this case as well, and since I don't understand Russian, I've asked Shebali if moving with just 1 unit was allowed. Her answer was clear: it is allowed.
I guess it comes to the fact that nobody escapes the Spanish Inquisition.., err. nobody chooses to end in an Ambush :) So it's not like "I'm going to join a group battle". And you don't know your opponent either. The game system lets you exit the Recruitment page with just one unit and travel with just one unit, so why should you get fined for falling in an ambush? It's like punishing thief victims for not having enough AP when falling in an ambush.
We can discuss it a long time but the important point is:
It is allowed.
And the second point is: it's different than what we are discussing now. Please stick to topic. There's already plenty to discuss, don't you think? ^_^ | | although what Kusika did was generous but he did broke the rule,and 1k is a bit low penalty consedring how many times have he done it. | so he is reporting, deciding and gives fines himself without consulting anyone.
He doesn't need to consult anyone. If he wants to discuss with other keepers (and sometimes we do) that's fine, but it's in no way obligatory. | | Btw, in laws every word has its aim. If our rules have no that point about not full army and putting stacks under attack, than its don't have it - don't try to create it. | Now, show me WHERE there is a rule wording difference between both servers that would lead Kusika NOT to be punished here WHILE being punished on .ru.
Guilty until found innocent? :-)
Its all a stupid formal problem, caused by absence of administration. Kotrin has nothing to do with this. Its up to administration to update the rules and the interpretations of them.
Anyway I would like to see the rules extended and also Kusika could swallow his pride and do whatever. Lets find 10 players for a Kusika sadness fund. 100 gold each. :-) | don't try to create it.
No one's creating anything -_- Do you really think lining up your units for you attacker to get easy kill is not throwing away a battle? And if you think intentional throwing of battle isn't against rules, then you need to read the Keeper's clan (which by the way has been for several weeks so there's no excuse not to have read it). | | problem not in biggnes of punish, problem in punish itself. Kusika didn't break any rule! He didn't lose that fight, its forbidden by rules. He won, and just give some FSP to opponent - its not forbidden by our rules. When it will be forbiden we will not do it. | According to that rule all the players who travel with 1 stack of 1 troop or with no troops should be punished. Never heard of anyone being punished for that. So, the .com rules interpretations shouldn't be the same as .ru rules interpretations.
This case has already have been discussed and it's outcome is well known, the ambushed party kind of "have to" combat against their will because they didn't "intend to" get ambushed on the first place, as such, they are entitled to get away with it without deploying units/ using just 1 unit because they didn't intend to battle in the first place.
As per the topic issue, when browsing higher level ambushes i saw quite some of these, that made me storce my nose a bit, but i didn't report because i didn't find really an "harm done", just an act of kindness, like it's an act of kindness to share hunt gold, for istance.
But, truth be told, i thought of it as being illegal, or rather than illegal in the grey side of thing, if i were one entitled to enforce rules, i would probably cross refer to the mother server( .ru) if there have been cases of such thing, control how it was resolved and copy-paste the solution.
As such, i would have reported it.
to those naysaying because .ru and .com rules slighty differs in wording, i find that a rather flawed argument based only on semantic, the game is the same, run by the same people, rules may differ slighty in wording but they are still the same rules written by the same people with the same logic behind, as kotrin says, i dare you find a case that is legal in .com but illegal in .ru, or vice-versa.
Per se, if i were to decide i would probably have just warned them all first, penalized later if recidive, after all, wether kusika won or loss the combat he still purposely lost some troops in more than an occasion, keyword here is *purposely* .
If i can indirectly refer to other strategic broswer games, particularly those without a limit to how many untis you ammass.
say player A have X units, player B have Z units, if player B attack players A and WIN, BUT player A get the biggest benefit from the combat ( be it skill points, experience, or whatever, this being the case when UNITS is a to-infinite resource and as such don't constitute a loss of "power" when losing some), it's generally considered as pushing and a such, warrant a ban | | lol who would give 100 gold to a cheater |
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