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Caravan Problem


AuthorCaravan Problem
@60: Even if very unlucky (or lucky for a DE),that could happen before.
The more gobs stacks you get, the bigger the ogres stack will be. In case of only one ogre stack, it becomes insanely fat.
for Javi:
Maybe you will feel better looking at my caravan:
I see that the creeps make another things like before, for example my gargs were atacked at last, first genies, but now in the hunt the creep could reach genie but hit the garg
i understand some guys keep losing several months to the caravan to reduce the strength. but what do we get? an increased difficulty. just simply change the coefficient to swipe off all your effort in a second.

so IMO, don't be the guinea pigs to use our real time to testify a computer program and the ridiculous formula. all the previous changes are according to our performance and the consequence is always anti-players. wait until something really favorable to us happens, or just let it be a dead server.

enjoy your life
This is really bad joke:

1. wizard caravan

1948 Gremlins
2020 Gremlin engineers
329 Modern golems
281 Golems
363 Enchanted gargoyles
60 Gargoyles

after loss appeared

2. wizard caravan

2468 Gremlins
2134 Gremlin engineers
70 Modern golems
283 Golems
381 Enchanted gargoyles
329 Gargoyles

Both caravans I did with same units, same AP, same everything.

The 2nd "easier" caravan has:
+520 Gremlins
+114 Gremlin engineers
-259 Modern golems
+2 Golems
+18 Enchanted gargoyles
+269 Gargoyles

So no doubt admins changed it, no doubt they made big mistake or they just lost mind.
pantheon, vidlak:

I feel your pain. The difficulty level of caravan battles has increased exponentially these past few days (as if it wasn't difficult enough already!) I guess admins want more pvp and that's probably what will happen (at least at higher levels). People will get tired of wasting time and arts on impossible caravans and try PvP, where if you play well you have a better chance of winning.
wow vidlak i guess the game treats 259 modern golems(minus 2-3%) as equal to 520 gremlins 100+ engineers and a few hundred more gaygoyles

oh great a huge mob of rogues and a hero who blasts my troops to oblivion..........not funny!
it is crappy design. there are players or losers like losing battles, but not my style.
I don't see any problems in my caravans - ambushing with same ap (around 15 ) for long time now and caravans are just fine. There is an obvious change in the AI and the way they choose targets but that's quite nice because you have to just use different tactics.

Regarding difficulty i noticed that when winning a caravan it definitely increases more than 7% ( estimate around 12-14% or so ) but also losing a caravan makes it now substantially easier ( around 10% or so ) the next time. To find out exact numbers we need to find caravans with small dynamic balancing - since we don't know the value each unit/upgrade has in admins' algorithm.

Pantheon's examples at post 50 are the things we should be looking for to find how things changed, 24->28 devils with minimal other troops means there is an increase of 12.5 - 16.67% ( counting into the picture rounding up or down that can be possibly be used )
I have one more example of strange caravan counts

1. Barbarian caravan

31 Rocs
235 Orc Chiefs
0 Orcs
57 Cyclops
136 Ogre Magi
0 Ogres
54 Hobgoblins
47 Goblins

I lost that caravan

2. Barbarian caravan

50 Rocs
162 Orc Chiefs
302 Orcs
0 Cyclops
107 Ogre Magi
104 Ogres
96 Hobgoblins
46 Goblins

I lost that caravan again

3. Barbarian caravan

64 Rocs
0 Orc Chiefs
201 Orcs
61 Cyclops
108 Ogre Magi
0 Ogres
58 Hobgoblins
28 Goblins

When I compare first and last caravan I see that by loosing two caravans in a row I gained 33 more Rocks, instead of 235 Orc chiefs got 201 Orcs (no significant difference), 4 cyclops more, 28 less Ogre magi and gobs and hobs are not important because of few number.

So does anyone see something easier by loosing two caravans? Difficulty is the same.

The difficulty you thought might be much different than what the admin thought.

235 orc chiefs to 201 orcs are definitely counted as a significant drop
And 31 Rocs to 64 Rocs is in that way significant raise as they are fast and deadly
And 31 Rocs to 64 Rocs is in that way significant raise as they are fast and deadly

well that depends on how strong they are in admin's opinion since you got 28 less orge magi =P

That's what you believe and maybe me and many others - but it has nothing to do with how algorithms work. Dynamic balancing inserts a randomized process in the caravan difficulty and you have just been a victim to that. Do me a favour and keep an eye for the next one or two times you meet that caravan and you will see that the difficulty will be substantially lower.
Im doing little research on that and will continue of course:)
But problem is that no one ever saw that algoritm so we have to just guess how it works. I really dont understand why the formula is stil unrevealed, what is so secret on it? Other formulas like how luck, morale or damage works are known, so why not this too?
I think we need to know what the relative "power" points the admin give to each unit. Without those data it is really hard to track the difficulties.
Noone can tell why some formulas are unrevealed. We do know that ( at least up to sometime ago ) win = next time 7% harder and lose = 5% easier next time. This was roughly true - maybe not obvious if you lost only 1 or 2 times to same caravan because of dynamic balancing issues ( like the rocs numbers you mentioned ) but in the long run it was same thing.

You are now a victim of DE ambushing with full arts and trying to manage with less gear :P I can understand your frustration at the moment but the fact is that from a quick look at your combat log you had in the past like 80% winning rate using enchanted set for ambushing - which obviously has made now your caravans very hard.

But if you lose enough it will become OK again. I was in similar position to you before ( though i never pushed it with enchants or completely full arts cause i was always broke from the old mini artifact system :P ). Took me like 2-2.5 month of consistent ambush losing to make caravans reasonable with demon/wizard in my now standard 15ish AP ( still losing a lot as wizard since faction sucks for ambushing but can also pull several wins that few months ago would seem unimaginable - demon i win around half of my caravans last few days )
Im happy with level of my caravans, I dont expect to lower difficulty to be able win caravan with few arts within few days. Im still able to win any of above mentioned caravan with my enchanted arts, but I dont want raise numbers above total amount of xp I can get. I got 14k exp for many caravans in a row of same types and as 14k is a cap it brings me nothing to raise number so thats why Im decreasing now, but I dont want difficulty of caravans even raise by losing them:)
win = next time 7% harder and lose = 5% easier next time
Increasing rate isnt only 7%. On easy example its more:

After winning this one:

5524 Skeletal Bowmen
69 Infected Zombies
504 Zombies

Next time appeared this one:

7292 Skeletal Bowmen
247 Infected Zombies
278 Zombies

Its really not only 7%
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