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| Author | Clarification of rule |
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3.17. The Administration does not take responsibility for the unreturned debts and does not guarantee compensation in case of swindling by other players; as well as in case if the debtor has been blocked. When a loan is not returned in time, (the time must be written in the transfer logs, no more than a month) the swindler will be imposed a penalty of a sum twice as much. If the term isn't posted in the transfer logs, the penalty will occur 1 month after the loan transaction. The creditor does not get compensation.
I’m not questioning any admin’s actions, which is not allowed. I have a question and want to clarify the rule I don’t quite understand.
The rule states the penalty as equivalent to twice the amount owed but it doesn't mention anything about a block. The player in question is as follow:
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4693773
My question is: was there an update to yet another rule not announced? | It may be covered under
1.5. The Administration has a right to stop offering the service to any particular user, subnetwork, or in global.
1.6. The Administration has a right to control and interfere into the game process when the situation requires it. | | Takesister, so the overarching assumption would be it doesn't matter what the stated penalty is or how the rules are written because ultimately it could lead to a block invoking rules 1.5 and 1.6? Meaning there is no proper due process but rather punishment is subject to the whims/fancies of whoever holds the "block" button? Interesting. | There are times when "proper due process" only gets in the way of getting results. Maybe that dude was reported, maybe he made too many loans and the admins felt that he won't be able to repay them and deactivated his account so he couldn't do further harm, maybe he got to their nerves and the loan thingie was just a convenient excuse. I've seen a lot of players use technicalities to attack other players, I won't be surprised if admins do that too. XD
I’m not questioning any admin’s actions, which is not allowed. I have a question and want to clarify the rule I don’t quite understand.
Don't let exact words confuse you. More important is the principle behind the rule and it is: "Don't ask for loan you can't repay or else."
Somewhat related to the thread:
Rules Lawyer: This Munchkin disputes every Game Master ruling, and has memorized every loophole in the game manual. For some reason, he never seems to "correct" the DM when the rules as written would hurt him... The Game Master's best tactic against this guy is Rule Zero; what the DM says, goes, no matter what page 54, column 2, line 41 word 5 of the book says.
From:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Munchkin
Let's face it, folks. The admins are the dungeon/game masters in this gig and what they say always goes. Nothing we can do but put up with it or leave. | its ther game.
they create rules, they delete rules.
Even they have every right to break ther own rules.
who are we? :( | | Guests entered by our own will, purely for free, in someone else's play-house, criticizing the toys we find. | There are times when "proper due process" only gets in the way of getting results.
Without commenting on the specific case I would like to make a comment on unclear rules and the importance of following rules stated.
Just because something is easy or faster don't make it better.
If people don't know or understand the rules and then become afraid of an random block, they wont invest time and energy in building a hero. This will surely kill any RPG in the long run. | If people don't know or understand the rules and then become afraid of an random block, they wont invest time and energy in building a hero. This will surely kill any RPG in the long run.
True. But where do impressionable players get the idea that a particular punishment was "random" or not? From players questioning admin rulings in the forums. I understand that some people are confused by some rulings but that confusion is not shared by all. Talking about your confusion only spreads your confusion to other players. Well, maybe not all players. Not all players are as "stubborn" as I am and they get easily swayed by what they read in the forums. My own approach to it is to come up with my own personal set of rules and follow it until it gets in conflict with admin rulings. If that happens, I'll quit.
So far the recent admin rulings have not come to conflict with my own personal rules. In my opinion, a certain famous player's block was not random, you shouldn't be asking for large loans like he did. And if you do, be ready to be ratted on by someone you owe money to. This issue doesn't confuse me.
A popular player's fines, to me, weren't random. He was baiting players in battle chat. He was doing exactly what I would do if I wanted to troll players in battles. Sure, they weren't very nice players but he went down to their level and paid for it. This issue doesn't confuse me either.
I also remember a notorious player getting blocked for slander of admins and official representatives. That was Rule Zero in action, I think. Maybe the admins (or the people with block buttons) are wimps you can safely tease and bully in real life but in this game, they are gods. Or tyrants, if you're an atheist. Maybe it's not such a good idea to troll them. Unless you want to make an impression and leave the game with a bang. XD | I don't want comment anything about what the keepers or admins use to made an judgement...
But I think, the reason for we are losing players isn't because of that, it's more like because we are abandoned, only few events, no marketing, divulgation, promotion of the game, no copy rights, no support from big company's...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the .ru server is just a copy from this one... And they have 15k players, while we don't have 700 god dammit!
And 70% of all top players from here, are playing there too... It's so weird... | From observations over the time I have played here. Admins usual tend to give warning fines and amnesties etc for first or minor offenders.
Blocks dont seem to be most common punishments but are correctly given for repeat breaches or extreme cases. | | he can be unblcoked for returns of loans... | well, just want to reply the ts AND i m not speaking as keeper in this reply.
even the rules didnt state that you will get blocked for no returning loan, but it doesnt mean you wont get blocked; because the rules didnt say you wont be blocked for not returning loan!!!
in general, block is the last resort when warning and penalty failed to work. but, in certain cases [especially finance assist], block is the only solution.
take note that there are ALOT cheater using the 'LOAN' term for finance assist as well... | From observations over the time I have played here. Admins usual tend to give warning fines and amnesties etc for first or minor offenders.
Blocks dont seem to be most common punishments but are correctly given for repeat breaches or extreme cases.
Ok i agree with this... Only question is how many times was he warned. He could easilly give back that loans as he is 2.3m on plus due too roulette and played only 3 factions so i m sure he have a lot of enchants. One thing i can t undersant in this game is 1 warning and than ban for a charcter that is playing for years here. Also big problem in branch - Complaints and applications - Violations in tavern and battles where we have 2 mods(one closing topics without penalty, other giveing penalty). What is that? Some get away without penalty some get penalty. So give penalty too everybody or nobody cause this is unfair. When we get a rule that existed or not before we get big problems. afk rule took some high lvl players, than chat thing ect... Could you mods or admins not post sticky topics before punish players for afk or that commenting in battle chat that it will cost them gold instead go for punishment right away? | No confusion here.
He has been given many warnings for various offenses. He has even been blocked at least once (maybe twice). Also teasing admins (check Lexa's transfer log), some reports (I've personally come across of) that in his last roulette spree he has dug the hand in some clan's funds in which he was treasurer (not his money), plus borrowing more money than his level allowed, relapse of the borrowing infraction (this was not his first time, check transfer log), etc... It is very possible some other little things exist of which none of you know, but only him and admins.
Each of these individual things are surely not warranting the block. But constantly pushing the limit, from various sides, sums up. It is possible that this summed up to a block, according to the very last rule: Please note that these rules weren't created to limit the game process. On the contrary, they were created to improve the game and to provide every player with a chance to win. Even if he can afford paying twice the fine for the loan by playing roulette (or donating), how about thinking of the game play of all those who lose their money by loaning to him?
I wish him the best of luck, if *he* wants to raise from his own ashes, and *he* seeks unblock. | I believe coolahed was blocked because like naviron said he kept pushing the limit.
The actual violation for which he finally got blocked was:
3.14. There are limits for transfers intended as presents or loans. Maximum size of debt that can be owed to all other players in total is 20,000 * [Combat level] gold. The maximum term for loans is 1 month, unless the comments to the transfers state a shorter period.
He borrowed more then 300000 which was above his limit.
And he didn't repay it with in a month.
Roulette is a cruel mistress. Stay away kids. | | This was relapse x3 of borrowing money and not returning them in time. | for Dionysus:
This: When a loan is not returned in time, the swindler will be imposed a penalty of a sum twice as much. refers to the first (maybe also the second) violation.
In the particular case you posted, the player was warned multiple times through fines. He was even blocked and unblocked 1 or 2 times. So, as others already said, after so many relapses character block was no surprise. | | I don't see a rule saying that continuous unreturned loans lead to ban, BUT what I really hate on the specific case is that people TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to the case report his unreturned loans and the loaner gets a penalty. In my absolute opinion (yes my opinion is above all yours :P) only those who gave the loan should be able to make a report for punishment. Did anyone ask the lenders if they are happy with his block ? NO, noone even cared about their lost gold now, 'cause - yes - NOW they lost their gold, as long as coolahed was not blocked they would just wait until they get it back. You see ... the problem with those so sloppy rules is that they only punish the violators without offering justice to the violated. Rules made to make happy only the administration. Rules made for those who play, but are comfortable only for those who don't. | Hallion, we are "living" in a community here. Doing something illegal harms the community as a whole, and any member of the community has the right to report it.
Imagine a parallel with people living in a society. What you are saying is that a crime should be reported only by the one who suffered it.
So if I kill you then you'd be the only one entitled to report it?... | | OFC if I get killed I can't report it. But if my cousin robbed my house I would like to wait for him to return it instead of my stupid neighbour to report him. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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