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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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This all seems to have gone very off topic for the recent posts. Please try and keep it on topic from now. The arrows, which incidentally were totally legal and not posted to provoke anyone are a very trivial part of this much larger problem.
The purpose of this thread is because of Multiple cases of Moderators abusing their powers and This topic will not fall under rule 1.5 of the forum rules, you are free to discuss moderators' actions so we are allowed to ask these questions and expect answers!
Personally, I think that the refusal of any involved MODs (past or present), to even attempt to answer these questions speaks volumes in itself.
To respond to some of FBs thread #339:
First Point - It is exactly what you would expect. If you target a specific group of people then obviously it would be those same people who want this addressed.
Second Point - Yes I have accused you & Kotrin of illegal bans. I have posted the facts proving this in this thread. The posts which you both banned me for broke no rules. Your bans in particular were just to cover up and try and hide your actions regarding other specifically targetted bans of others. I tried discussing these in a polite manner on many occaisions with you both and every time got the same reply "We dont need to explain ourselves. If you have a problem then write to Secretary"
Third Point - Maybe you could expand on this as no other MOD has been willing to come forward or even seems to know about you discussing it with them? Is this really true? If so: Who was it discussed with? What was discussed? What was the outcome?
_______________________________________
@DiN.. Since when a player isn't allowed to make a joke in the public chatroom?
Answer: When it's purpose is to insult or place ridicule on another player who is not present! AND the people included in the conversation are responsible for stopping & have powers to stop this kind of behaviour! | OMG... this topic is still alive and active!!?? o_O
Well.. since the purpose is Multiple cases of Moderators abusing their powers, I think I will mention 1 case when I think it is an example of 'power abuse' from a (former) moderator. Notice the date... that this is an old topic and back then, we still have big hope that the dwarves will come and attack us :) Actually, I never feel that this is a big deal. That's why I never sent a PM to her and questioning about this.
Look at this topic: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1855499
I post this topic in 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum. True, my idea is about Tournament. But it is still a 'suggestion', and I think that it belongs to 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum.
But a mod closed it and said that it should be in 'Tournament section'. If it is the case, it would be better if she moves it to Tournament forum rather than close it.. right??
And what I think power abuse is :
I am not a 3 years old boy, and I am fully aware that Admins have the right to decide the story line. What I suggest is just a 'suggestion' (duh!!) which means if Admins take my suggestions... woow! it's cool!! but if they don't... it's not a big deal.
It is definitely not in Mods authority to decide what is a good suggestion or not, and close it without letting Admins read and decide for themselves what is good or not for them. IMO, this is overstepping authority.
And long after I create the topic, I made a suggestion again about tournament. And this time (based on previous mod's advice), I put it in 'Tournament forum'. And yes, another mod think that it should be in 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum and moved it (after I ask to feel free to move it whenever they see fit). See it in : https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1861488 | lol
for DEATHisNEAR and h4nd:
this thread is for:
I invite anyone who has anything constructive to say here, to post a disfavored opinion about the work of our finest.
Multiple cases of Moderators abusing their powers and lack of time (Arctic's) are why he didn't use another method.
Mods action can be discussed but this isn't a complain thread!
Read carefully what is written, please:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877993&page=0#370882
Mods action discussion is permitted because almost anything constructive to say and a disfavored opinion about the work of our finest would be punished as illegal otherwise. | for MathProfessor:
Read again previous post of mine in this thread. I already said something constructive don't I?
And FYI, my post in #342 is not a complaint. I post it to give an example of what I think is a case when a Mod is "Abusing Power" and "Overstepping authority".
The reason why I post the topic is : I hope that in the future, Mods won't do this anymore. Isn't it constructive enough?
And you too please Read carefully | And BTW.. you should not quote Arctic's message partially and alter it to fit your opinion.
Your message in #343:
Mods action discussion is permitted because almost anything constructive to say and a disfavored opinion about the work of our finest would be punished as illegal otherwise.
and Arctic's original message is:
I invite anyone who has anything constructive to say here, to post a disfavoured opinion about the work of our finest.
..... you are free to discuss moderators' actions; nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
You know the difference between the meaning of your message and Arctic's message, don't you ? | | this topic is dumb solves nothing there have been like this its just a place where people can freely bash the mods people who provide a free server and listen to all your god dam whining if your dont like the mods leave no one here is forcing u to play this topic solves nothing and if anything i would be the one to hold a lot against mods seeing as how i had a 30yr ban but hey it was solved i am happy now suck it up stop whining and moaning live with it and hey if u really hate the mods no one forces u to go on forums and chat stay off of them | for #346:
...a place where people can freely bash the mods people who provide a free server
Admins provide the server, not Mods.
and keep in mind.. nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated. | | i know i was a little pissed off and i vented with my brain off XD | | You're all adults, this is a game if you have this much time on your hand to post and complain about the mods then go do something constructive in real life. You're all acting like a bunch of kids and the mods were put in charge by the teacher and they go ban on every little thing and make such a big deal. Instead of worring about the length of a title, flooding whatever why not spend more time in the Complaints and applications or somewhere thats actually important. | ARCTIC
considering the mass amount of text on this I ain't gonna read all of this...
my complaint would be I tried for a long time to get a tourny approved by you and didn't get any kind of response telling me no or yes or how to make it a yes.
Other than that, I ain't got much to complain about....um for now anyways, hehe, give me a while I may think of more, haha. | @340
Nope, its called Mod Bashing. If the Administration feels that it got the time to handle this thread, then it got time to handle the complaints that arrives through the official channels. If they don't have the time to handle those, then they wont have time for this thread, leaving it to be just flaming of Mods.
There are an official channel for complaining, that is the only one that should be used.
#341
Yes, you are allowed to ask those "questions" (accusations isn't the same as questions, but w/e), that's exactly the point. You shouldn't be, not on an public forum. This thread is specificity created out of an minority's wish to flame mod's and its destructive to the community, to the game and to the staff of Mods. It has 0 value as constructive source. This is the kind of threads that kills games. Anyone participating in its creation should be ashamed. | #351
you can call it bashing, i will call it discussing than. can't argue about that.
and for the record, no, i don't believe in God, and no, i don't believe in Secretary. | There are an official channel for complaining, that is the only one that should be used.
You are correct and THIS IS the official channel for complaints about abuses.
This is not a thread for bashing MODs and never was though some people have tried to turn it into a thread for bashing other players I guess to try and distract from the real issues it was created to tackle.
This thread is specificity created out of an minority's wish to flame mod's and its destructive to the community
This an interesting opinion although totally incorrect. As one of the people who's discussions with Arctic most probably lead to this thread along with at least one other moderator who felt the issue needed addressing and many others. This thread was created to address ongoing issues going back well over a year and its only purpose was to tackle these abuses and put a stop to them (This is just my opinion as I can obviously not talk for Arctic but it is based on facts and a knowledge of the background unlike others). | This *is* a thread for discussion, not flaming or "Mod Bashing".
Remember Artic's initial post included this message - nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
If you have looked through this thread, you would have noticed that there aren't that many instances that have been raised of alleged improper action by Mods. And that's a good reflection on the Mods as a whole. But Mods are human too, and sometimes people make mistakes.
Use the Secretary to report Mod actions? Well, I've done that before, almost a year ago. I still haven't received so much as a response. If the Mods had been willing to discuss some of the cases raised here then perhaps this thread wouldn;t exist. Perhaps you would like to take a look at this thread (https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864025&page=6),a thread opened by a Moderator with the supposed intent of discussing the Rules of the Game (which would include Forum Rules). If people aren't allowed to discuss possible problems with Forum Rules enforcement in a thread opened for such a purpose, and writing to Secretary doesn't even generate a simple response in less than year, then there really isn't a venue where a player can raise a greivance, now is there?
This thread was raised in reponse to that obvious problem. *Many* times individuals have attempted to derail this thread by claiming it's only purpose was "Mod Bashing". In the past Mods would have simply deleted such posts in other topics with a simple "Off-Topic" message. But such casual post deleting really is part of the problem. When a Mod can delete a message that a player may be relying on to prove improper Mod activity, what can a player do?
You can be sure that if someone really was "flaming" Mods, the Mods would certainly take the opportunity to enforce the Forum Rules, even in this thread. Artic has only suspended Forum Rule 1.5 in this thread, Forum Rule 2.2 is still in force. If anyone was insulting Mods, you can be sure a Forum ban would immediately be applied.
This thread was opened to discuss Moderator actions, perhaps you have something to discuss that is *on* topic? Something regarding the issues under discussion, rather than contributing to the repeated, unsubtle efforts to derail this thread?
Grunge | Remember Artic's initial post included this message - nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
That's a false promise, like the rest of this thread.
Arctic will certainly not moderate anything here. This leaves us with remaining mods - too afraid to intervene in this very thread, because of Arctic's restrictions on moderation. Could have made sense had Arctic decided to manage this disgraceful thread himself, but that's not going to happen.
On the other hands, since this thread was also to disclose abuses from moderation, it's sorely lacking too. Since nothing serious came after 18 pages, it looks a lot like off-topic and mod bashing to me. The "discussion" Grunge writes about evokes this image in my mind:
http://a3.vox.com/6a00c10e0f6746d3b400c22529f4338fdb-500pi
But I'm sure you guys will manage to push it to 60+ pages. | I thought this thread died!
[Player banned by moderator Erebes until 2010-04-10 03:22:32 // Please be on-topic . Warning ban . 1 min .] | Why would the Mods be afraid to intervene? If they are enforcing the Forum Rules properly they have nothing to fear.
I would suggest, in a thread like this, that the Mods should be reluctant to simply delete posts, as has become their habit. But applying a just penalty should not be a problem. In fact we have seen several instances of Moderating activity in this thread. Just look at posts # 9, 167, 169, 208, 321. The only Forum Rule suspended is 1.5, the others still have full force.
I do think it interesting to note the difference between the action on Post # 9 and that for Post # 169, for example. I have said repeatedly that Moderators have gotten into the habit of deleting posts rather than just applying the appropriate warning or Ban penalty. IMO, deletion should only be reserved for posts with insults and innappropriate content. I don;t think the delete button was provided to Mods with the intent of, for example, muting anyone who questioned Mods decisions (again, see https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864025&page=6). But Mods seem to be in the habit of deleting anything that they don;t agree with. Deleting a post for being off-topic is truly over the top. If it's not insulting/inappropriate, just warn or ban and leave the message as an indicator of what sort of content is allowed, and what isn't.
Unless it's more convenient for Mods, because it makes it difficult to dispute their decisions because the evidence is removed. But surely that's not the case?
I'd love some serious activity in this thread. For example, some questions were asked earlier, regarding the motivation behind the actions of certain Mods. They haven't really been answered, in fact I would way that they have been deliberately neglected. I would certainly like to know the motivation behind the decision to penalise Topic Titles in G&C with a 3 day ban? And the motivation behind the decision to abruptly start enforcing Forum Rule 4.3 in the T&S threads, and then just as abruptly, stop enforcing the same rule? So will someone who knows actually give us an answer? Questions like these have been asked before, considerng the nature of the thread it is entirely possible for the Mods (and ex-Mods) to answer questions like this, yet they don't seem inclined to do so.
So how about it? It took only 5 minutes for Kotrin to respond to my last post. How long will it take the Mods (and ex-Mods) to answer reasonable questions put to them? There are several outstanding, unanswered questions from several pages ago. Is it really that much trouble to answer? Or would truthful answers take so much effort that the Mods would be rendered unable to continue their war on such the big issues, like elaborate Topic Titles? Can you say "Stone-walling" boys and girls?
Perhaps, if there were some actual, useful responses, rather than the continued *off-topic* claims of Mod bashing, this thread might actually achieve something more than a length rivalling the silly flooding threads.
Grunge | | Grunge enough's enough! | Grunge enough's enough!
lol Grunge holds a grudge...
[Player banned by moderator Erebes until 2010-04-10 03:25:00 // Please be on-topic . Warning ban . 1 min .] | Just for those that aren't aware of the meaning of the word Stone-walling.
Stone-Walling - (Noun) the act of stalling, evading, or filibustering, esp. to avoid revealing politically embarrassing information.
I see you can make disparaging (and off-topic) posts, put still can't answer a straight question Kotrin.
Grunge |
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