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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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Multiple cases of Moderators abusing their powers brought to my attention and slight lack of free time caused me to create this thread.
I invite anyone who has anything constructive to say here, to post a disfavoured opinion about the work of our finest.
This topic will not fall under rule 1.5 of the forum rules, you are free to discuss moderators' actions; nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
I will be keeping an eye on the thread, and hopefully posting in and out occasionally, until I have heard enough opinions to form the most objective idea of the case. | | Thank you for your prompt response Arctic, it is very much appreciated. I will leave others to post thier views here now as you already know mine though if anything else comes to mind I will add it here. | i was banned a couple of times for "No third party comments"
once i said "No proof" to an Intentional AFK and i can count multiple times when others have said that and have not been banned
then i said once to a "asking for account" thread about magicboy
i said: "magicboy had just got hacked and whoever hacked him probably sent it to u, so please dont make a big deal" something like that
-Chance12 | oh, sry for double post
i did not like being banned because the forum is my favorite thing to do when not in combat | There is no need to have a discussion about mods!
Mods and admins actions are not to be questioned:)
right? | This topic will not fall under rule 1.5 of the forum rules, you are free to discuss moderators' actions; nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
last time i checked, he just said we could :D | I really don't understand why can't you (no specific reference) use title like:
Hidog lvl 12
or
asteria 14 lvl!!!
instead of:
TasKurPavaro ====> Lvl 13
or
kwan_waris3====================>Laborers' guild 8
BTW congratulations
For those who didn't find the rule violation:
4.2. It is forbidden to post messages preventing the users from comfortable reading the content. As an example, posting messages with an extremely large amount of characters without spaces will result in warping the forum structure and hence is prohibited.
And since it's here:
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=6
It apply to all forum regardless of local forum rule (look at 1.4)!
Note: remember that on smaller display useless arrows (or other symbols) make the forum quite difficult to read!
If you want to use arrow do it like this (1 arrow):
Player name -> lvl 14 (or other level)
This is enough to evidence the number, without making a mess of the forum.
And for DEATHisNEAR:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877963
You didn't even post the level in the title just the word level.
Stop playing innocent, it's ridicule. | I don't know about other complains concerning the forum mods, but concerning the arrows, there are people using displays half the size of your left palm to browse the internet (and LWM forum in particular).
Some people (who use large monitor screens) may not care about a couple of (useless) arrows in a forum title, but for others (using small screens, e.g., palm held devices) it's *very* cumbersome to read it. And hence the rule about no *useless* extra characters in the titles.
So why adding the cumbersomeness for some, if those arrows serve no purpose?
At least with respect to the arrow business flame, I think the mods followed the rules. And others played around breaking them.
Just my 2 cents. I've got no side in this business (in particular I've been banned once as well by Kotrin -- justified for not paying attention to the rules in CaA forum) | Glad to see you around, Arctic.
[Player banned by moderator Kotrin until 2010-03-23 08:53:29 // off-topic.] | | ooops - my mistake - there is no 5) or 7). When I was adding the numbers to reference my bans my cursor obviously had a life of its own.
Sorry for any confusion caused. | Anyone who thinks being a Mod is an easy job is an idiot. Same can be said for any Mod who thinks they never make a mistake, or anyone who expects them to never make a mistake.
That being said I think there are some fundamental problems, policies, and practices, perhaps not with the mods, or a particular mod, but with the way they do their job. What I am referring to is the tools, and directions they are given to do their job.
There are some things that I have seen that call into question the actions of a Mod.
Not being consistent. When some people get punished but others don't it creates doubt in a Mods judgment as well as what is and is not allowed. I realize that the biggest cause of this is that everyone is different. One Mod might see a rule violation where another does not. But the fact remains that when rules are not inforced consistently people question both the Mods and the rules.
Lack of clear rule definition. Most rules are clearly spelled out, and there really isnt that many. Anyone who doesnt take the small amount of time it takes to read the rules deserves whatever punishment they get for breaking them. However, when it comes to what is and is not allowed on the forums the rules are not always clear and are often to the discretion of a Mod. This is made worse when a Mod issues a punishment based on their judgment but will not clarify what they consider is and isnt a violation. Telling a person, you know, or its obvious, or whatever makes since, or just keep it to a minimum, or any other vague response only invites criticism. You cant expect people to follow a rule that you refuse to define. That would be like getting a ticket for driving too fast but theres no sign stating the speed limit. Then when you ask you are told, just slow down.
Not being allowed to discuss a Mods decision. I understand not wanting to explain every action a Mod makes. But they are human, and thus make mistakes. And I cant believe there has never been a Mod that knowingly abused their power. In these cases what options do we have but to talk about it, getting others opinions and making them aware of it. And dont say to write the secretary, thats the biggest slap in the face. Dont waste your time writing the secretary, write the president, or the queen, your odds of getting a response are way better. Having posts deleted and even whole threads erased is one thing when there is offensive or abuse language in it. But when a Mod does it just because they don't like the comments or because it questions something a Mod did seems like an abuse of power to me.
Being a Mod is a position of power, but not respect. And I am sure every Mod has been disrespected multiple times just for doing their job, even for doing a good job. In my opinion sometimes a mod feels the can, or need to, force others to respect them. But that will never work and most often have the opposite effect. Personally I respect all Mods because they have a difficult job, but that doesnt mean they are always right.
Bottom line, their are things that can be improved. By the Mods, the policies that direct them, and by anyone posting on the forum. | No offense to anyone, and I have no intention to defend anyone. This is only my personal opinion.
Just a quick glance on Gratitudes & Congratulation Forum today (https://www.lordswm.com/forum_thread.php?id=112), I feel really uncomfortable.
That forum is a mess.
I am not talking whether it is breaking the rule or not. See for yourself, and be honest to your heart | | Well I just been banned 3-4 times in my account... | Sorry for double post,
One more thing just came into my mind.
While I can understand why Sven91 lifted DEATHisNEAR's ban (and I respect him for doing that), please you (Mods & Admin) have a serious talk about it in your 'special' forum. Because it can bring a very bad situation in the future.
Let's just say :
Player A has been banned by Mod X, and then Mod Y lift the ban of player A (indirectly saying that the ban was wrong). And then Mod X or Mod Z re-ban player A and saying that the BAN was OK.. Imagine what a chaotic situation we will fall into :(
I trust you (Mods & Admin) can discuss this and make a smart solution to avoid (potentially) worse situation. | 3>
good, you should noticed that MOST of your 'no 3rd party comments' posts were NOT punished. also, you will just find out that not ALL other '3rd party comments' got punished. consider that as a mercy, you had been given multiple chances to not to repeat again.
tell me, how much you had repeat on your comments or discussion in CaA? did you ever read the local rules after 1st punishment fall in?
somehow, you never learn from mistake and prefer to post your own comments again and again.
yet, judging each case is NOT your job; it is either admin, juries or whoever with power BUT just not you. all you can do is provide evidence (with fact and not garbage, comments and discussion) to help on the investigation. | Dear Arctic, here is my case:
2 months ago or something Pang gave me a 4 days long ban (FOUR days, if not more) for having posted an off-topic comment in the financial forum.
In the meanwhile, for same violation Pang gave MUCH SHORTER bans to other people or he DIDN'T BAN at all.
After that I stopped posting of forums because i decided that giving satisfaction to some kind of abusive moderators is not worth my time and I wrote Arctic and Secretary about it but i didn't receive any answer so that now i'm dropping this post.
Ty for your attention, Arctic.
Cheers,
arzillo | There are a lot of things I would like to talk about in this thread but I am not going to the trouble to analyze my thoughts mostly because noone will read them.
The main thing i want to say in this discussion is that i find these forum wars pointless. Throughout the existence of this game and other games I have played in the past - there are specific people that try to advertise themselves / thier friends /their guilds / their opponents' weaknesses etc etc on forums on daily basis. This leads to useless conflicts that most often than not involve searching the letter of the law ( i.e. reading the rules 1500 times to find what it is allowed and what it is not). Once this happens - common sense is lost and things can only be solved by divide intervention(i.e. admins). And this intervention usually results in an axe beheading N of the X parties responsible, leaving the remaining X-N parties to rejoice in their "victory".
I strongly believe that worrying so much about forum is a waste of time. If you want to really enjoy the game - enjoy it on the battlefield or the market. Let others be the forum kings or the witch hunters - it may help them get a feeling of self-accomplishment they somehow really need.
It is really sad to discuss about forum title arrows and even use arrows in the first place.... instead of playing the game... | I agree a bit with Jabbar. Being a mod is a hard job,they are only human, they have their own lives. Many of us may say we want to be a mod, or want to have the power and so called glory. It seems that when your a mod, almost every decision you make is made fun of and ridiculed by players who don't fully understand the situation. Many of these posts could probably have been avoided if people fully understood the situation. (something that isn't likly to happen.)
Anyway, just my 2 cents | Since everyone is doing it, let me also add my 2 cents here:
I haven't been banned yet by the mods, even though I know that some of my posts were subject to interpretation (possibly a sublime flame), so I believe I can consider myself lucky on that. Either that or the mods haven't noticed my posts or, maybe, just maybe, they are reasonable people who understand where I come from and why I criticise those who don't understand what this game is about.
Anyway, the point is that, taken out of context, some of the bans I have seen (being sent a number of PM's from some of my clanmates) seem more like a personal vendetta then a clear and strict enforcing of the game rules. Then again, some posts (example: Modi's topic) do seem over the top and almost asking for a ban.
So the question becomes: who should we expect to always judge things fairly and not take into account the past? A simple user, who may or may not have the required mindset to move on from certain things or a MOD, who is, by definition, supposed to be judging everything separately and fairly?
I may be a little biased, but I believe that, with power and respect (mods are respected, even if that's not clear here) also comes a lot of responsability and being able to keep a cool head is imperative when being the judge, jury and executioner all by yourself. |
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