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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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Response to # 598.
Again, nice try.
The first is most likely really for Caps and certainly makes no reference to Forum Rule 4.2. There are lots of other threads from that era with multiple !s and ?s in the title. They weren't penalised.
The second is likely to be in reference to the deleted post. The title certainly doesn't have 19 !'s in it.
The third is from, guess who, Kotrin! Isn't he the one that manufactured the rule in the first place? So if he manufactured the rule, how does referencing an earlier instance excuse the behaviour? And that also means that he ignored other instances of the "infringement" from a much earlier period than I suspected before. Can anyone really believe that he didn't notice the other instances of that infringement in all those other Forum branches given he was thinking about it from such an early time?
Grunge | The second is likely to be in reference to the deleted post. The title certainly doesn't have 19 !'s in it.
OMG u're right. What was Shebs thinking? It was only 15 !s
The third is from, guess who, Kotrin! Isn't he the one that manufactured the rule in the first place? So if he manufactured the rule, how does referencing an earlier instance excuse the behaviour? And that also means that he ignored other instances of the "infringement" from a much earlier period than I suspected before. Can anyone really believe that he didn't notice the other instances of that infringement in all those other Forum branches given he was thinking about it from such an early time?
So, basically u're saying that u're only bothered when Kotrin bans someone?
cuz that's what it sounds like to me, u certainly made up good excuses for the others :) | So because Sven91 retroactively created a rule to explain Kotrins penalty, and that means it's fine (note the date on the thread, well after Kotrin applied penalties)? Personally I thought only the Admins had the authority to create rules that cover the whole server? I thought that Mods could only make additional Local Rules (Forum Rule 1.4)? Have we received confirmation on that "rule" from the Admins?
Forum Rule 2.3 is used for those that make Topics titled "Help!" and "Please answer fast." where the subject of the topic isn't reflected in the title. I'm not aware of any occasions where it was used to penalise an adorned Topic Title.
I'm still not aware of any instance where rule 4.2 to penalise adorned Topic Titles, except when Kotrin started to do it. Maybe you can show me one?
Grunge | | Since Shebali banned a player for excess exlamation marks in Feburary 2009, and Kush another player for caps AND too many exclamation marks in October 2008, I suggest their characters are blocked, such abuses of moderation are not tolerated here | @ 603
Have we received any word about anything from the Admins for a long time now?
And if you all know and believe that Mods can't clarify the rules why do you keep asking for clarifications from them? It looks like you're just taunting them.
With 2.3 I find many problems too as I said before, very poor formulation.
For 4.2, if it concerns the posts it surely concerns the headers too. | Ever the Master of misdirection Kotrin.
As I said, there were *many* topics in that era with several ?s and !s in the title that weren't penalised. I don't know of any that were penalised exclusively for too many ?s and !s. But there are lots that were penalised for Full Caps titles, like that one. Perhaps Kush accidentally put more in the penalty description than he intended, like other Mods have done in the past.
And of course you can *prove* that the penalty applied by Shebali was for the Topic Title and not the content of the post? It's really a shame when Mods delete people's posts. It makes it so difficult to use the posts as evidence. The penalty description mentions 19 !s. In my experience Shebali was usually fairly careful with her words. Just because you *want* the penalty to relate to the title doesn't mean that it actually does.
We've heard from their representatives just recently, in this very thread no less (see post # 423, and other threads recently regarding Lexa and actions taken against cheaters).
Have to go to bed now. I'm sure there'll be more to read later.
Have Fun
Grunge | This ends up once again in personal attacks, so I'll leave you all have fun as I'm not interested in meaningless quarrels anymore. The Melodrama has lost it's edge after so much time XD
Have a nice sleep mate :)
P.S : Lexa is a sheriff, not an Admin. And that post from her was great and maybe false as Admins could post in English at the hidden Mod forums as we've heard many times... | And of course you can *prove* that the penalty applied by Shebali was for the Topic Title and not the content of the post? It's really a shame when Mods delete people's posts. It makes it so difficult to use the posts as evidence. The penalty description mentions 19 !s. In my experience Shebali was usually fairly careful with her words. Just because you *want* the penalty to relate to the title doesn't mean that it actually does.
Grunge, everyone can look at the topic you mention, don't you realize?
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1847656
Title:"AFK" I Hate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post:[Post deleted by moderator Shebali // Insult. AFK doesn't automaticaly imply incompetence.]
Ban:[Player banned by moderator Shebali until 2009-02-12 00:19:59 // Excessive usage of exclamation marks. 19 min ban for 19 '!']
Yeah, sure, post body is not there anymore. And there's a reason for it - "Insult" if you can read. And there's a ban because of an improper title, and this is written as well. But you're right, perhaps Shebali had something to hide, she was so evil, she probably imagined this post could be used as a weapon one year later. :rolleyes:
Honestly, I'm with Erekose on that one. There's no point going on in circles. This thread had its purpose: It revealed all those unfit for moderation. Now it's clear to everyone, it's pointless beating up a dead horse.
Hope you'll eventually enjoy the game despite all your bile.
PS for Erekose: Lexa is a male. XD | Where does it say anything about the penalty being for the Title? As usual you are trying to boost your flagging position with "facts" that are simply not there.
I don't think Shebali had something to hide nor do I think she was so evil. In fact I think that Shebali was probably one of the best Moderators we ever had. I think it's a great shame she left as a Moderator.
As usual you are putting words in other people's mouths that were never their in an attempt to discredit them. Again and again you, and those supporting you, resort to deceptive tactics when arguing your point. Like in posts # 592 and # 595 when Sven91 showed threads purportedly showing other cases of Topic Title infringements and you "thanked him" for pointing it out. As I said, those were obviously all QaH Local Rule 2 infringements, and as ex-Mods you would have both been *well* aware of this fact.
Then, scraping the bottom of the barrel, you found some penalties that could be *interpreted* as being for the Topic Title, presumably because you were unable to find any other *actual* penalties. However, I'm sure you are also well, aware that they could also be interpreted in other ways. But I suppose your armoury of legitimate reasons for past Mod actions has been expended so you were forced to resort to more unreliable arguements.
And Ekerose, I think when someone has a real knack for something, their abilities should be acknowledged. Kotrin really is very good at misdirection, he's shown it time and again, even in his most recent post. He implies that Shebali's penalty was for the Title when there is nothing in the penalty description that says so. Certainly he would like to believe it was so, and it is a *possible* contributing factor, but I would have to imagine that the insult is the significant infringement in this case. The excessive use of !s are merely a footnote, and could be in reference to the post that was deleted rather than the title, as Kotrin well knows.
Grunge | rofl, someone complain mods create new rules. we mods never create new rules. most of rules were extend from the existed rules. the long string violation is exactly extend from rules 2.3 and 4.2.
guess what? And they are universal forum rules, though poorly explained.
hence, some players just try to explore the loophole as much as they can, try to reach the border as far as they can. at the end, they argue on no such rules existed, therefore they are not guilty.
in such case, they are more like provoking; the only matter is what was the agenda behind. to bait mod perform wrong action? to find out how big was the tolerance? no one know, you should ask them. AS, no one was so FREE to waste the time like them to test those rules where you can just simply follow and prevent yourself to fall into the trouble.
the most surprise is: they even try to lecture other on the rules which was fooled around by themselves LMAO
like i said before, 'common sense will never be common sense when it wasnt well-defined in rules; THAT'S what we call LWM's common sense'. | To end the confusion as to why shebali banned the player in post :
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1847656
The message she banned the player was :
Congratulations!!!
Any forum moderator can access this link and verify what i am saying :
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_ban.php?mid=15656&pid=216059&page=0
There is a loophole in the system which allows one to indirectly ban a player on the same post on which he has been banned earlier , it requires some work . | There is a loophole in the system which allows one to indirectly ban a player on the same post on which he has been banned earlier , it requires some work .
Which allowed me to view the message shebali banned the player for . | @608
PS for Erekose: Lexa is a male. XD
Ehm, I'm really sorry, mistyping :)
@609
He implies that Shebali's penalty was for the Title when there is nothing in the penalty description that says so. Certainly he would like to believe it was so, and it is a *possible* contributing factor, but I would have to imagine that the insult is the significant infringement in this case. The excessive use of !s are merely a footnote, and could be in reference to the post that was deleted rather than the title, as Kotrin well knows.
If what Erebes says is right (a couple of Mods from various clans can post so we'll all be 100% sure) there's nothing left to say.
And Ekerose, I think when someone has a real knack for something, their abilities should be acknowledged. Kotrin really is very good at misdirection, he's shown it time and again, even in his most recent post.
I was banned twice by Kotrin before joining WGW (Kusika's case and a 9/11 thread) for reasons I still think are wrong. So naturally I didn't like his action nor him at that time, but when I asked for an explanation from him he was straight to me and having no clan affiliations made me see clearly I was against the forum rules even though I may disagree with some of them. So I even joined WGW after some time. From some pm conversations, I've found other certain people misdirective, believing blindly only their own opinions, trying to oppress them to others and convince anyone they are always right... No names or pm publications are required to back up my statement, as I hate the "snitch" role :) | I'd like an answer as to why the following happened in this thread:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1881433
The 1st post was deleted AFTER a moderator stated in post 9 of the same thread:
"As a game it is ok , but if this turns into a flame , i will have to lock it."
1. No flame occurred thereafter.
2. Members of LoS even joined in on the GAME.
3. One of the ppl even in the list posted!!
Then 4 hours later it is blocked (by the same moderator). I'm sure there was some discussion behind the curtain in the mod-hub, and I'd just like a reason as to why this has happened.
I tend to recall many "take a point give a point" threads which were directed only at the mods - never deleted. And if this clan felt so provoked, then why would one of their own openly post on it?
So I'm just wondering if there was a sudden rule infraction that sprung out of nowhere to say this was provoking? And what constitutes provoking since THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN!! and players have posted worse and more insidious comments here without even a delete or ban.
Last question. I am aware now of at least 3 questionable acts brought about by players of and about this war clan within the last 2 days, and I'm just wondering if this what we can expect from the present "powers that be"?
P.S. if this doesnt concern you your comments are not welcome. | If you have to know , i had some discussions and then came to a conclusion on the action to be taken on the first post which openly accused LoS and its members .
And skunder , where have people posted comments in the thread ? The only reason the rest of thread still survives is because as you said it is a take a point give a point thread . There was offense and provocation in 1st post and it was removed . | | [Post deleted by moderator Pang // on request] | | [Post deleted by moderator Pang // ] | 1. If you have to know I would appreciate it if you changed your tone with me. I don't deserve your haughty voice here. I have undergone much questioning and actual persecution personally in my moderating of the past and have seen 31 pages of garbage posted here where far less of importance was presented to case.
2.i had some discussions and then came to a conclusion
Um...yes thanks for regurgitating what i had just said, i.e.
I'm sure there was some discussion behind the curtain in the mod-hub, and I'd just like a reason as to why this has happened.
3. Your question: where have people posted comments in the thread not exactly sure what this means by "people". Quite an unclear line of questioning, most likely it attains to this though (which still has not been answered):
Both Grunge and Red_baron commented/posted on the thread. They were actively participating in the topic - in a manner which followed the rules of the thread. Basically what I'm saying is, these two LOS members had NO PROBLEM with this thread as seen by their actions in participating in it.
My question (still unanswered) is, WHY, yes WHY - meaning the REASONING behind your actions, your opinion/ruling changed after posting something that LOS members felt was provoking them, when their own people, and even who the thread mentioned didnt have a problem with it?
Who initiated this "idea that it was provoking"?
Why is okay for 'certain lwm players' to outright call others the countless things they've been called on this thread and not suffer punishment, but it falls on los now and they gain the benefit of the doubt?
4. LOS members have openly accused moderators of far worse and havent so much as received a warning, much less a delete and a ban - as did luke. Why is this suddenly such a sought after event? Are clans - even war clans - beyond the realm of bringing their actions to the light? Or is this simply because los members instigated this ruling? Can we say conflict of interest anyone? | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1881421&page=0
Post 14: Must say bad choice of some mods. Hope we won t be seeing drama clan mods wars like we saw in forum theses days. Seems that only cretaria was apply for mod as administration is not reading this forum.
Anyway congrats too some...
[Player banned by moderator Barbarian-Fishy until 2010-05-16 12:55:49 // Waening. Breach of 2.2. Insulting. New mods need to be given a chance. All of them.]
I would like to see what part of this post was breaking a rule so it deserved ban. Stating truth in a polite way along with one`s opinion is freedom of speech, not a rule violation.
Out of our new mods and sages, one is already blocked, 2 reported for various small violations, few of them are not being fluent in english or have different issues. | For myself, I am watching and learning right now. I am in no rush to use my new "powers". I like the advice you gave in another thread, Omega. It makes a great deal of sense. I'll observe for awhile and learn before I try out any new buttons. Honestly, there hasn't been much opportunity anyway... there must be 20+ mods active at any given time, every infraction is caught within seconds.
Seems like a good time to watch those who have done the job here for awhile and learn from them. |
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