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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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| [Post deleted by moderator Slynky // Deleted per poster's request.] | | (I answered to wrong topic, can be deleted) | Biased moderators:
I recently 'heard' Deathisnear speaking with another player in chat room about clan #529. I saw the clan link, but remembered an older one and checked it out. The other one - same name and clan - was still open.
I confronted DiN on this, and he closed it. 2-3 times I asked when DiN was going to ban/punish limus for posting a new thread while another was already there. He refused to. [For those unaware limus is also DiN's war clan leader]
As I read the rules: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1868260
1. Every clan may have up to one thread for its advertisement in this forum.
I could be wrong, but this doesn't say you can post new clan threads. It says each can have 1 clan thread. Opening a second thread (and one that is open - but that's not the point), is illegal and DiN 3 times refused to do a ban. Reasons (beyond bias)?
I have the chat log upon request for specifics as well... | First off, this is ridiculous, Skunder. You WERE a moderator at one point, so it surprises me how quickly you've forgotten the mechanics of the Forums. Then again..you never were very active...so I guess your apology in this affair will suffice.
The original #529 clan post was 'open,' and it was on page 3 of the clan's forum page:
"This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions."
I couldn't update it, or close it. DiN just closed it with his Forum powers as Skunder mentioned above, to silence his baseless drama. In fact, this thread is not the only one in the history of the Forums to be "auto-closed" due to inactivity...no one has ever made a fuss over it because those that take the time to read the forums already know this is what happens to 'old/inactive' threads.
No rule was broken. I made a new, functional post, and have thus been updating it since to prevent it from being "auto-closed" from further postings by the Code.
Also, I was banned thanks to this fabricated allegation, which further shows that you [Skunder] are encouraging illegal behavior among the new mods. Bravo! Keep it up, and the rest of the server will learn to ignore you when you falsely cry 'wolf.' | This is taken from the clan thread mentioned above:
"Regarding the ban from Moderator MyDoom:"
Are the clans really your place to discuss such issues limus?
And posting:
"Skunder managed to infect a new mod into taking a wrong action"
...is highly off base. I hadn't spoken to Mydoom about this in any way. So the 'infection' was purely his ability to read the situation and act on it.
Lastly, I'm getting quite tired of your offhand insults (yours and others). I understand your clan has taken the liberty of learning how to handle (and by that I mean manipulate) the rule about insults and not doing it directly and thus avoiding a ban. However, I am making it known to the new moderators that these ARE insults (defaming another's character or implying they in some way are doing something they have not - encourageing illegal behavior for example). If you find you can't speak to someone without belittling them to make yourself feel bigger limus (and other) please be mature enough not to post at all. I for one would get along well without all the clutter that you (and others) post.
And mods please be more observant of this as well...the LWM Chess Game was deleted (1st post) because of provoking, how are the issues i just stated any different? it's time to be more discerning.
Aside from that, since you are not a mod, limus, I will await the official view here...
I could be wrong, but this doesn't say you can post new clan threads. It says each can have 1 clan thread. Opening a second thread (and one that is open - but that's not the point), is illegal and DiN 3 times refused to do a ban. Reasons (beyond bias)?
So, are we going back on that "let's make new rules" kick or what? | Skunder,
Sorry you are bent out of shape over your actions, but the fact remains that a new Mod acted out on your credibility. Being a former Mod yourself, he trusted what you had to say without properly investigating--a mistake that I hope will not be repeated.
Also, because the ban cannot be removed (once it is there, it's there forever) an explanation had to be given to protect the integrity of the #529 GB clan. So thank yourself for trying to manipulate people into viewing the world in such a negative manner. The GB clan's clean, and honest post, suffers from one of your 'baseless' attacks...but at least people will know the clan is, and always has been, in perfect compliance. Too bad you aren't a Mod anymore...because if you had moderated this matter yourself instead of trying to trick the new Mods, you'd have lost your job by now. | Response to Post # 618.
Actually I found the thread "LWM Chess Game" to be a very humourous thread. It showed how some people just can't let go of an issue and are prepared to do whatever it takes to re-ignite "hostilities" that never really existed in the first place (at least in the opinion of one side of the "issue").
Why wouldn't I want to help advance the thread to the point where it gets closed, using a method that wouldn't be considered off-topic?
However, with post # 1 of that thread deleted, the venom was removed and it has become just another pointless time-wasting game. You will notice that I haven't posted since. Enjoy your chess game, now that it is no longer an obvious attempt to goad a particular group, you can take as long as you'd like to close it down yourselves.
Have Fun
Grunge | You know what guys,
I've spent the day feeling pissed and angry. That in turn only made me feel pretty crappy. I understand alot of you like this sort of thing, fighting and bickering about useless things that once you close your computer down for the night means nothing. I don't. Not that I can't do that, but some people actually WANT to honestly be productive and do something positive and in a positive manner. I had done that for quite some time here in many roles. But I haven't seen that here in a long, long time and I felt myself being dragged into it. I personally can say I don't feel good about bringing up topics/issues that are as pointless in the long run as rules about topics that read:
I need attention <==========
I won't allow myself to do so again.
Beyond that I'm tired of political games, of being caught in the middle of your ridiculous clan war. It's fantasy. Fantasy is a nice place to visit, but I feel allowing myself to be dragged any further in with the lot of you is a waste of time for me (not just the specific members of LOS that I've had problems with either, but those propagating this hatred on all sides) .
I'm not going to justify myself here, I'm not going to ask any more questions for players or mods to explain themselves. Heck you can even forget about the (not moot) points that were posted above. It's just that I don't care anymore. I'm not a schemer and I found myself playing your games - I can just say that I don't want to be on either end of this "coup d'etat" which HAS taken place here. Don't worry guys, there's no more need to pretend...there's (barely) anyone left who cares. You win. End of arguement. No need to continue.
What this means? No. I'm not "quitting the game". I'm not foolish enough to think I will just stop signing on. But yes, you win. How about at this point though, the hard feelings drop, the speculation drops, the arrogance drops, and mods who are "old mods and new mods" actually try to help this game together. Jeez, you all know it's going to take the lot of you when the admins leave once again (just speaking from experience from the 3-4 times it's happened already for up to even 9 months at a time).
In conclusion,
It'd be very great if no one posted with snide and arrogant comments to this post, and maybe I could get back to doing what made me enjoy this game...and heck maybe get a chance at writing "Chronicles of Skunder Part 2: In Death's Grip" which may reveal itself in time (right after I finish the current announcement given)...
Good luck to all of you,
Skunder
(yes Grunge the signature is one last jab at you...couldn't refrain =) | for Skunder:
You are right about better spending time on other things. I did the same thing a couple hundred posts ago, then dragged myself back in. There is really nothing to gain from either side of this argument remaining at each others throats.
I think everyone that cares to has made their feelings known regarding the various issues, I know I have, more often than I would liked to have. I never felt it was a situation to be won, and actually thought whatever the outcome if anything it was a lose-lose situation.
I have tried to be a neutral voice, however I am clearly tied to LoS. I am sure this has caused comments I made to be viewed as biased when I thought I wasnt. As I am sure the same has happened to members of other clans. Throughout this entire mess I never singled one Mod out pointing at them saying what they did was wrong (exception see next two paragraphs). Instead I tried to cite examples that I thought were worrisome. I thought that people would more easily agree on the situation if the individuals could be left out. But regardless of if you name names or not people pretty much know, or assume, who you are talking about. Even now, when I would like to put this all in the past and move on, I continue on with more words than probably necessary.
With that I would like to make one public acknowledgment, for Kotrin.
Kotrin I apologize for the posts I made directed at you. Rather than justify why I said what I said and make this sound insincere I will just say what I said is how I feel. But I felt it was better to make my thoughts public when it may have been best to talk privately with you instead.
I would like to make just a few things clear before I say the last I hope to say regarding such matters. I speak for myself and LoS as clan in reference to the following.
LoS never had any intentions of getting Mods to quit or be removed from their position. Some individuals may have desired this of some Mods, and perhaps some acted on it. I know of nobody that did and LoS did not support such things.
LoS has never schemed to commit nefarious acts. Discussions did take place between various members regarding situations that troubled them, but anyone made privy to such conversations would never take them as rebellious or out to get a person or people.
LoS had no part in a coup d'eta. We never sought to remove anyone, and we certainly had no knowledge that recruiting for LWM clans would take place. When it did there was no push for clan members to apply, the single clan message regarding applying to be a Mod was a discouragement if anything.
Like I said there may be a few LoS members that believe or acted contrary to the above statements. If so this was a personal choice and not that of LoS.
I am not trying to stir up the pot and get things going again, I just wanted to try and clear things up regarding what some think LoS wanted. You dont have to believe me, and I doubt any of what I say will likely change how anyone feels. But again I felt I had to say it.
As Skunder said, I hope we can all move forward and be a positive influence on this game and its community. We all want what is best for it, we may disagree on from time to time but we can all agree on one thing. We enjoy this game and want to see it improve. I join Skunder in focusing my efforts in ways that will make it better rather than focusing on the past troubles. | LoS never had any intentions of getting Mods to quit or be removed from their position.
Then I wonder, what is this mysterious LOS you are talking about? (For forum community, League of Shadows are its members who post at the forum. And the other way, when you say LOS at forum, you mean members who care about forum and visit it.)
LOS wanted this, LOS wanted that, who is this LOS?? Limustu or someone else? Is there some mysterious clan who said "Hey Kotrin is a good mod, get off his back." Did this happen?? I am confused and dizzy.. | @619. I would think "Bad choice of some mods" is obviously an insult to the new mods. I even included the rule it breached.
It is also a baseless insult. There is no justification for making a decision before any behaviour has been shown.
It is this kind of baseless, knee jerk reaction; judging of people by who they associate with, not judging them by their actions that will potentially continue on the feuds indefinately. That has to be stopped.
Also it was a 1 minute ban. More a warning than anything too serious. | @619. I would think "Bad choice of some mods" is obviously an insult to the new mods. I even included the rule it breached.
It is also a baseless insult. There is no justification for making a decision before any behaviour has been shown.
Yeah, yeah Barb, we already saw your wonderful moderation here:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1881421&page=0#400493
If "bad" is an insult to your eyes, you've got serious moderation to do in this very thread (most probably including posts from yours). And that's exactly because much behavior has been shown that Omega22 is entitled his opinion. | @629
Crying over corpses you helped creating is no atonement.
@630
It's probably the abstract idea of LoS XD That explains why you're confused and dizzy..
@631
Already 1 Mod blocked 3 hours after his position acceptance and 2 Mods reported for illegal in game acts. I think I can see a "Bad choice of some mods" | I think it was well understood this thread had more latitude than most. There's been moderators around a lot longer than I who can moderate this thread if they want. They haven't. I don't think I'll set a precedent.
Also, there is a bit more to it than the word "bad". It's a criticism of Cepruyc, who is part of the admins, and even if people think complaining to the secretary may not be overly effective, that is the means to complain about these kind of decisions. A private mail to cepruyc would also have been an option.
It was also a 1 minute ban. There's been many discussion on ban lengths. 3 days, 2 months, so that is obviously a relevant concern. It was nothing more than a warning to make sure not only Danzi, but everyone didn't feel it was alright to comment about Cepruyc's decisions. That is the reason I also left the post there instead of deleting it.
You may also want to recheck your facts. It was Danzi, not Omega 22. | | I mentioned Omega22 because you replied to him. | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1881433&page=2#401110
Since when are moderators allowed to ban people for provoking?
When kotrin banned DEATHisNEAR for provking, another 10 pages were added to this topic. Now DEATHisNEAR bans someone himself for provoking.
Abusing power? | | Along with a nice cover-up of Limustudotcom by deleting his post... | @636. 4.6. It is forbidden to insult other players, as well as to
[b]provoke an insult.[/b] {Wonder if that works on this forum}
There is always some degree of discretion about what is provocation, what is insulting, etc. The previous discussion (which will never get agreement on) was that mods should try to generally make the same decision for the same infraction. In the opinion of some, that wasn't being done.
It seems like the admins are a bit more active at the moment. I would suggest contact the secretary. IF that doesn't work you may try to e-mail specific admin people Arctic, Lexa, Cepruyc, as they will probably be following up on the mods a bit. | @637 Same as Nutella got their post 621 in this thread deleted by a mod at their request. Ooohhhh! That mod was of the same clan. Conspiracy, conspiracy. Or maybe, they just contacted the first mod they could get hold of as they posted something that they later thought better of. It is most likely they would find amod of their clan first purely because they will be in contact more with clan mates than anyone elses.
If you wish to find a conspiracy, you will find it. I prefer to look for a less sinister option. | insults hm...? He provoked an insult but didnt gave an insult himself.
So why does he delete + ban the post with the description "provoking"
I remember when Kotrin wrote in the description "playing arrow games with mods, congrats you win" that a bunch of LoS members thought it was worth their time writing 10 pages of nonsense about it. This case is noting different, just the names are switched. DiN banned this time and not Kotrin.
So that makes DiN equal to Kotrin :)
I have no intentions to email the admins. I dont care much about the people that are moderators or sages. The forum is a way too large mess already, so this few people on top of it won't make a difference.
If admins want to give us a proper forum with good moderators, they should do the same thing as they do on .ru. |
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