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| Author | Losing battles intentionally should be stopped |
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There are several players, who lose battles intentionally (99% of time), because they want to increase faction skill.
They are losers, because they lose more battles than win.
Why losers are given much more power than winners?
Was this game created for losing battles?
It is possible to become the most powerful player in this game without wining any battle!
You can become level 9 in all factions with 0 wins (and thousands loses) being only combat level 1 (with 0 experience).
My suggestion: don't give such BIG bonus to losers.
One of the ways to prevent (at least partially) such nonsense is this:
Players shouldn't be able to have faction level higher than combat level (they can have many faction skill points, but they should be able to reach higher faction level only when they will level-up combat level accordingly).
For example:
If you want to be 3rd level wizard then you have to gain enough experience and raise your combat level to 3.
If your combat level is 2, then you can have level 2 in all factions at once, but not level 3.
This won't stop losers from losing battles and increase their skill this way, but it will make almost pointless to lose battles intentionally.
All players want to be powerful, but the only fast way to do this is to lose battles intentionally.
So, you have to choose:
1) to be loser, but powerful and skillful (in faction)
or
2) to be winner
Why this game doesn't give any advantage to winners?
Why losers are so awarded in this game?
BTW, I was really surprised that so many players congratulated some losers, who lose battles intentionally.
I'm not telling that to be a loser in this game is a bad way to play this game; I'm just saying that such way shouldn't be the best way to play this game.
And I don't like to be a player, who doesn't play as good as he can. But I am such player (not playing the best, because I'm not losing), so I have to leave this game, because this game is made for players, who can be losers 99% of time (strong people, BTW).
Actually I'm the loser, because I already lost this game by not losing battles. | 4. Any idea should have a purpose and describe the means of it's realization. It should also answer the question: "Why it needs to be done?".
If you just are afraid of such peoples or can't do the same as they - this is only your problem.
You are elf - so you CAN'T understand the fractions, which need racial skill very much.
I dislike the idea. | | some people like being losers, let them be :) | for Erlemar:
I think Robai described the idea, it's purpose and means of realisation well enough, as well as gave his reasons for Why it needs to be done
for Robai:
I wouldn't say that the only fast way to [become powerful] is to lose battles intentionally Esp. since it's neither fast, nor most efficient. Compare: when someone hunts and wins, they get +1 to HG, +0.5 to faction skill. When one hunts and loses(on purpose) they get +0.4-0.44 to faction skill. In terms of aquiring power, which is more efficient? Neither, actually -_- Nothing beats being hunt assistant
Also, as Erlemar pointed out, factions don't depend equally on faction skill, so it's possible to say that this topic fall under
7. It is forbidden to create topics with suggestions to weaken/strengthen any unit, artifact, faction.
As for people like a certain 2lvl wisard, who lose intentionaaly to mobs - let'em lose. You yourself said that they probably will never play PvP because it brigns too much xp - so let them live in the forest if they like it. It's not like they're hurting anyone...
"-" to the idea, because I don't feel it's nessesery.
P.S. The admins have figured out a solution to the problem, sort of, and implemented it on .ru. But I won't mention it here. I don't want to bring bad luck to .com. It's my greatest hope that solution will never reach this server. | Robai, all people dont play the same way,
you played for achievements and did great deeds like best hunters records,
some players see high character builds as achievement for itself,
even if we can not all agree on that we have to respect their way of playing.
Also i myself have won 1065 battles and only lost 50 (from which disconnections, lag and then misclick or one my first battles in the game at level 1 versus wizards brigands :P) But I might waste my good fights stats and become a loser if i cant find another way too.
Why? Because I feel the need to increase faction skills : some factions are stronger versus some others and training your defences versus your "best enemies" is part of the strategy like acquiring strong artefacts.
Also we noticed that more you level up, more it will cost with casttle upgrades miniartefacts skeletons etc to switch faction and still be able to win battles. But even with all constructions, you are very weak with no/low faction skills. So all that people dying on purpose do that, because they didnt find any other way to improve their defences without leveling since according to the rules, we have to keep the exp/skill exp ratio.
I think we should propose another way of obtaining skills points than suiciding on neutrals that would not change the ratio of other battles like special quests/tasks or trainers.
Anyone is welcome to post a suggestion for that. | to Robai : I don't see what disturb you here ?
sometime I have fights coined red, and I go knowing there is 90% of chance that I loose, but sometime I just don't want to wait for help from somebody else and I go. It is suicide, but where does I harmed you ?
I ll loose an opportunity of having exp and gold, it is my problem, not yours ... everybody wants (and can) to play his way. | to Erlemar:
Question: Why it needs to be done?
Answer: half of my post is the answer to that question.
You are elf - so you CAN'T understand the fractions, which need racial skill very much.
I'm Elf + Wizard + Necromancer, so there are many things which I understand very well. Why are you insulting me?
to Shebali (hi, BTW):
oh common, of course you will find a rule, which was broken in some way (I'm tired to fight you - you win).
But I didn't suggest to weaken/strengthen any unit, artifact or faction. :)
My suggestion: winning should give you more power than losing.
1) One of the ways to do this (partially):
make this requirement: Faction level <= Combat level
(don't like it, ok, tell me other ways to benefit winners)
2) Other way suggested by akwamaryn (I agree with her):
I think we should propose another way of obtaining skills points than suiciding on neutrals that would not change the ratio of other battles like special quests/tasks or trainers.
I've already suggested a training room some time ago:
http://www.heroeswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1835051
3) an unknown way in russian server, which you didn't tell :)
Nothing beats being hunt assistant
Hunt assistance is not a fast way to increase faction skill! It is actually a very slow way (at least in level 6 or more), because you have to play this game 10 hours per day if you want to join more than 10 battles (and in higher levels those battles are hard and long).
Consider this: when you are level 1-2 you can lose battles every 15-20 min an get more than 1 faction skill point per hour, AND you can do those battles at the time you want (you don't have to check every 1-2 minutes if there is someone, who needs hunt assistance).
When you hunt, yes, you increase skill fast if you don't skip them, but this is only TEMPORARY (we all got our first skill points fast). But his way is very expensive, because it costs experience (it means that this is a really bad way to increase faction skill points).
Other way is to skip almost all hunts and hunt only very tiny monsters. This way you will get tiny amount of experience + huge amount of hunt points (a whole 1 hunt point). But this is really not fast way to increase your faction skill, because you have to skip 95% hunts (but it is a good way to increase hunt skill - this is another problem, but I will not discuss it, because it is off topic).
to hagnair:
You have lost only 25 battles (and won 300). What is the problem? Why my post concerns you? You are not a loser! You are a winner!
If you lose battle vs hard monsters then it is not a shame. You should get some skill points (ex, 0.2-0.3), but if you lose 95% battles vs tiny monsters and get 0.4-0.5 skill points then it is a shame!
And this is what I'm talking about: why losing intentionally vs very easy targets you should get skill points?
If you win then your next target will be 130% stronger and will be much harder to win again, which means that it will be harder to get skill points.
So, why by losing very easy battles is much easier to get skill points than by winning?
My point: winning should be the MAIN way to get skill points, not losing.
(at least, not losing very easy battles) | Well people who do that vs people who plays the game just leveling up normally. its not fair to the people leveling up normally.
1 way to stop that is getting exp for hunts even if you fail. i've heard lots of people say "Learn from your mistakes"
same goes for mq quest.
and when assisting people in a hunt you should also get exp. you fighting something you should also get experience. | I'm Elf + Wizard + Necromancer, so there are many things which I understand very well. Why are you insulting me?
Where am I insulting?
You have only 2 level of wizard's racial skill.. and as I see you played as wizard only on low levels, when you didn't need nor high racial skill of wizard nor mini-artifacts. So you can;t understand wizards..
And you yourself have
Elf: 6 (539.64) +360.4
on 6 level.. this is against your idea :)
And you can receive a lot of skillpoints by winning - fight in everyone for oneself battles and win | I really don't see the point. People who want to lose...well let them lose?
Seriously, what's the harm done in losing battles against the CPU (not against other players) | So you can;t understand wizards..
I understand wizards very well, at least much more than you do ...
(having much faction skillpoints doesn't mean that you understand that faction at all)
this is against your idea :)
What do you mean?
And you can receive a lot of skillpoints by winning - fight in everyone for oneself battles and win
... and be killed by experience (and be weak?).
to XxFaithxX:
yes, this is one of the ways to stop losing battles (I don't like it, but it is a way). | I understand wizards very well, at least much more than you do ...
(having much faction skillpoints doesn't mean that you understand that faction at all)
Than you have to understand, that wizards with low level of racial skill have very low chancen against other fractions. And they need huge amounts of gold. So they have to level up rather slow and to raise level of racial skillpoints rather fast.
For example" elf on 5 level don't need high level of racial skillpoints to defeat other races. But wizards need at least 4 level of racial skillpoints and at least 100k for mini-artifacts.
What do you mean?
If your combat level is 2, then you can have level 2 in all factions at once, but not level 3.
or you just mean that on 2 level person can have now more than 89.99 skillpoiints?
... and be killed by experience (and be weak?). This is a very fast way of receiving skillpoints. | to Dreadclaw:
you can't harm anyone, this is just a game.
Back to my question: why losing battles is the fastest way to become the most powerful player in a given level?
By winning battles you become weak, because you gain experience and level up.
So, why losers gain much more power than winners?
I agree, let the losers lose their battles as many times as they wish, but don't give them too much faction skill points!
At least the amount of skillpoints gained by losing battles should be limited (or better: faction level should be limited).
to Erlemar:
wizards with low level of racial skill have very low chancen against other fractions
Agreed. But why only wizards-losers are the best players? Why wizards-winners are doomed? I.e. why only losing is the best strategy in this game?
or you just mean that on 2 level person can have now more than 89.99 skillpoiints?
I mean that if your combat level is 2 then:
1) you can be (lvl 2 Wizard) + (lvl 2 Elf) + (lvl 2 Necromacer),
2) but you can't be (lvl 3 Wizard) + (lvl 2 Elf) + (lvl 2 Necromacer),
3) no restrictions on skillpoints (only on faction level).
For example, in combat level 2 you can be
Wizard: 2 (200.00) + Elf: 2 (150.00) + Necromacer: 2 (75.00)
When you reach combat level 3 then you become
Wizard: 3 (200.00) + Elf: 3 (150.00) + Necromacer: 2 (75.00)
If your combat level is 4 then
Wizard: 4 (200.00) + Elf: 3 (150.00) + Necromacer: 2 (75.00)
And yes, I should never become 7th level Elf being in combat level 6.
fight in everyone for oneself battles and win
Yes, you gain skillpoints a bit (I think twice) faster than in other battles, but you will also gain experience. And 1-2 level losers can get 0 experience and similar amount of skill points by the same time. | I mean that...
If so - I have nothing against this, bacause ths will change nothing :)
Just players on 1-2 level will receive the number of skillpoints required for 7 level of racial skill, then they'll level up :) | | the simple answer is people play how they want... its not really the point in where losing is better losing and winning are neutral some people want to sit in front of the computer all day thats there choice if they want to get on for 20-30 min its there choice if you lose early its smart but actually by winning hunts you slowly gain combat and rather quickly gain faction poins(i mean u get .5 each time at lvl 1-2 thats 1 faction point in less than an hour)and you still get hunt points. So basically its a double edged sword its not over balanced or under balanced at losing and winning:)(>>------()---> | bacause ths will change nothing
It will change this: there will be no too powerful players in a given level.
It's ok for me if someone will be a loser (and raise his skill points fast, but his faction level <= combat level) for 1-2 years and later will decide to raise his level fast. I see no problems here, because such player will never be too powerful in any combat level (he can be very strong, but not too strong). | Ok, let me rephrase.
Why the crusade against people who choose to lose?
Seriously, losing isn't the quickest way to gain power. It's among the slowest.
Assisting and hunting succesfully is a lot quicker in comparison.
But, let's say it is the quickest way because you get 0 exp and faction points.
So what?
Seriously, I really can't see any problem with it, and no need for change.
Let people lose if that's what makes them happy!
What kind of horrible catastrophe happens when people lose intentionally? None.
The only thing that happens is that you go off like a firecracker. Let the people who want to lose...lose.
Don't get so excited over...well, something rather silly that doesn't really deserve attention anyway? | Assisting and hunting succesfully is a lot quicker in comparison.
How many assists you do per day? Yesterday you became level 8. So you will be really lucky to make more than 5 assists per day (soon you will see that I'm right).
So stop telling that gaining faction skill by assists is very fast.
It is good way (because you don't get experience), but not fast!
And you can't control assists!
Why the crusade against people who choose to lose?
Nobody is crusading losers. Let them lose a many times as they wish. Who cares?
But why losing gives them big power?
For example:
9th faction level Wizard being only in combat level 2 (without any mini-arts) will easily kill any 5th combat level player from other faction.
Seriously, losing isn't the quickest way to gain power. It's among the slowest.
Describe me a faster way to raise faction skill (in a given level, i.e. not gaining experience) and I'll give you 1000 gold. | I mean:
9th faction level Wizard being only in combat level 2 (without any mini-arts) will easily kill any 3rd (maybe even 4th) combat level player from other faction. | Maybe losing at hunt shouldn't give skill points? Losing doesn't need skill except against really inferior armies.
So like this (against 50 exp army and he killed 20 exp, 0.5 sp army):
White circle hunt lose : 0 exp, 0 skill points
green : 5% exp and skill points = 1 exp, 0.03 sp
yellow : 10% both
red : 25%
red !: 40%
that will make losing intentionally very useless, except red ! hunts. |
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