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| Author | Losing battles intentionally should be stopped |
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And why are you supporting the losing style?
Because I don't care. If someone spends more time in the game collecting FSP and the beats me in duel/3x3 - it's fair.
I would not make accusation such as "greed" towards people rather than opinion, maybe for mods it's an exception:)
I can't call in an another way. People, that invest less time to the game want to be on the same "power" lvl with people who invest more.
I don't think it's ok. | 101
Because I don't care
Yes, it's your personal preferrence and it does not harm anyone else, nothing beats that:)
But here, other people are proposing a better game world where you don't have to lose on purpose to gain "power". And now, for that proposal, you "care" to criticize?
If someone spends more time in the game collecting FSP and the beats me in duel/3x3 - it's fair.
So why don't we unblock these multi chars? they spends more time in the game collecting money and transfer, now they can afford better equipments/miniarts and beat you, it's fair
unfortunately admin don't think it's ok | I can't call in an another way. People, that invest less time to the game want to be on the same "power" lvl with people who invest more.
I don't think it's ok.
people spend less time wants to win is how you define "greed"
what about people spending equal time and even more time wants to win pvp?
If one(such as Robai) spend equal amount of time fighting hard enemies, or assisting huntings(they cost time and brainwork) and lose to "lost heroes" pvp. which party is greedy?
or you would rather say it's fair? | money and transfer, now they can afford better equipments/miniarts and beat you,
This one is prohibited by Game Rules. Investing time in FSP - not. Feel the difference? )
what about people spending equal time and even more time wants to win pvp?
They just keep on fighting, and the the "overpowered" opponents disappear. Because a player playing for xp lvls up much faster than the one playing for FSP. )
which party is greedy?
No one.
or you would rather say it's fair?
Depending on the tactics.
Usually, when "lost heroes" meet equal "normal heroes" on lvl 9-10+. And there, the difference in FSP (except of course the contra-FSP) is not that big anymore.
So, I would say, it's fair. | 104
you are really a tolerent player, sorry about my previous attitude, but that tone really fits well with Viconia's alignment(chaotic evil, kindly refer to baldur's gate)
now to bussiness
This one is prohibited by Game Rules. Investing time in FSP - not. Feel the difference?
yes, absolutely different.
And that's problem.
Now the purpose of the thread, is to make them equal, or nullify/reduce the bonus of losing intentionally, so you can still play defeated constantly if you want.(that's the method, not motivation for correcting the problem, so I would stop here.)
They just keep on fighting, and the the "overpowered" opponents disappear. Because a player playing for xp lvls up much faster than the one playing for FSP. )
That's true. Problem is the losing style is "infectious", if uncheck, someone and eventually more on your same high combat level do the same thing, who is the vicitim?
No one.
good, glad that you agree that it's really not about time spent.
Depending on the tactics.
see my previous post, fate is pre-determined
Usually, when "lost heroes" meet equal "normal heroes" on lvl 9-10+. And there, the difference in FSP (except of course the contra-FSP) is not that big anymore.
True, although, there are 3,4,5,6,7,8combat levels vs 9 and 10,
and even on 9-10, "lost heroes" could have all faction skills at level 9, 30% more resistant to all your attacks, magic or might, still fair?
Ah, we will see how this goes in the future. | And that's problem.
Sorry, I still can't see the problem =(
Either you gather FSP on the same lvl and you meet the "lost heroes", or you rush through the level and you don't care about them.
The final destination is the same - lvl 10+ = only MG, HG, TH....
Problem is the losing style is "infectious", if uncheck, someone and eventually more on your same high combat level do the same thing, who is the vicitim?
Well, I personally gather FSP through winning the hunts.. yet it is enough for me...
I'm not sure I got the meaning of this sentence right..)
and even on 9-10, "lost heroes" could have all faction skills at level 9, 30% more resistant to all your attacks, magic or might, still fair?
Still fair.
You know how much money (and time) it takes to have at least lvl 6 FSP? ) | for dArtagnan:
This one is prohibited by Game Rules. Investing time in FSP - not. Feel the difference? )
Then it should be ^^
Somewhere, some time ago there was an idea to make the upper limit of Fraction Level to (battle level) or (battle level - 1). It should fix the abuse problem. | 106
you seem reasonable, so I would elaborate my points, hope you agree or kindly point out my flaws:)
Sorry, I still can't see the problem =(
problem is simple, it undermined the game. As I see it,
1.Balance-basic game design. The game is unbalanced in this case, it is agaist most game design, and the "losing faction" rules over all others, despite the huge efforts to make 7 factions relatively balanced.
2.Fun factor-attactiveness of game, the losing style forces you to play a single boring style, or you have to deal with losing to pvp all the time with no hope at all or you only hunt vs AI.
Either you gather FSP on the same lvl and you meet the "lost heroes", or you rush through the level and you don't care about them.
for staying on low level: joining them, fun factor destroyed.
for rush level, you are not solveing the problem, just avoiding. And as more high combat level players start joining the losing style and wait to meet you...(sorry if it's not clear to you, but this is what I meant, hope now it's clear)
You know how much money (and time) it takes to have at least lvl 6 FSP?
So regardless of the dramatic gain of FSP difference which clearly favors the losing style, let's talk about the cost as you asked about the money and time
In terms of time
I know it's a lot for everyone, for you and me, we hunt for victory(more difficult next time, so you would stop at some point), assisting people and suffer the AFKers for merely .25 FSP. Losing heroes, effectively fight 15 minutes and fully recover in 15 minutes, quick battle as it's solo and weak opponents.
not favoring the winning heroes.
In terms of money
you don't accumulate money from losing for sure, but your gain by winnin is not that high either, because of the increasing creature number, plus you
need to wear arts to win. Most oftenly the losing style heroes are rich, see wild_shooter and Ethereality for their treasure.
not favoring the winning heroes.
The final destination is the same - lvl 10+ = only MG, HG, TH...
OK, let's ignore the 30% resistance for now, let's talk about the population, what percentage of players are on lvl 10 and are less influenced?
bests | I know it's a lot for everyone, for you and me, we hunt for victory(more difficult next time, so you would stop at some point), assisting people and suffer the AFKers for merely .25 FSP. Losing heroes, effectively fight 15 minutes and fully recover in 15 minutes, quick battle as it's solo and weak opponents.
not favoring the winning heroes
Wrong. Compare 1 everyone for oneself fight (FSP) with a hunt.
Winning heroes definitely in favour. BUT, they also get loads of xp.
That's the problem - xp.
In terms of money
you don't accumulate money from losing for sure, but your gain by winnin is not that high either, because of the increasing creature number, plus you
need to wear arts to win. Most oftenly the losing style heroes are rich, see wild_shooter and Ethereality for their treasure.
not favoring the winning heroes
As I can remember - they're both mages and due the need of mini-artifacts MUST have a huge gold amount in order to be able to create mini artifacts.
But to get 7x9 FSP level you must... BUILD Castles. And on lower level's it's TIMES cheaper then on 7+ lvls. That's the reason of existance of such players.
And as more high combat level players start joining the losing style and wait to meet you...(sorry if it's not clear to you, but this is what I meant, hope now it's clear)
They just to be big a strong and powerful. It's their aim, I suppose... and it's something, we cannot dictate to the others.
more difficult next time, so you would stop at some point
Unless you start hunting 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 parts... ) | They just _want_ to be big a strong and powerful.
I apologize ) | Wrong. Compare 1 everyone for oneself fight (FSP) with a hunt.
Winning heroes definitely in favour. BUT, they also get loads of xp.
That's the problem - xp.
Yeah, my bad, for not mentioning the exp/fsp ratio, that's the "power" we are talking about, the fact is not changed, still.
As I can remember - they're both mages and due the need of mini-artifacts MUST have a huge gold amount in order to be able to create mini artifacts.
one is , the other one is not, I guess it's not that they choose to be rich because they need miniarts, it's rather that they only work for money with no expense. Again favour on the their side in terms of money, and it is totally fine, as you said, they spend the time working, this IS what they really deserves, but NOT the FSP bonuse even after losing. It is totaly their choice to lose repeatedly on purpose, but the FSP bonus...
But to get 7x9 FSP level you must... BUILD Castles. And on lower level's it's TIMES cheaper then on 7+ lvls. That's the reason of existance of such players.
Great, you also agree that by losing the 7X9 is easier than winning.
They just to be big a strong and powerful. It's their aim, I suppose... and it's something, we cannot dictate to the others.
of course we can not, it's a healthy desire, but unhealthy approach, and it influence others in a negative way.
Bank robbers just wanted to be wealthy, it's their aim. What we can do, is to give no bonus/penalize such behaviors.
Unless you start hunting 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 parts...
yes, for winning heroes, happens at low chance, compared to losing heroes's 100% go-hunting at low levels. Costing less time again, favouring the losing style | 107 9voltz
faction cap for combat level is a good idea, we have ultimate cap anyway:) | Finally some people agree with my first sugestion (after this very very long discussion).
Just read 1 and 13 posts. | It is possible to become the most powerful player in this game without wining any battle!
I would like to go back to the original post and address this point. This is simply not true. Let's bring new arguments to this debate...
Losing in hunts gives you faction points. Winning in hunts gives you faction points, combat experience, gold, and Hunter's guild points.
Failing in mercenary quests gives you faction points. Succeeding in mercenary quests gives you faction points, combat experience, gold, resources, and Mercenary guild points.
Unsuccessful thief ambush gives you faction points and combat experience. Successful thief ambush gives you faction points, combat experience, gold, and Thief guild points.
I don't know. Losing thousands of battles to gain less than half a point of faction point doesn't seem like a huge deal when you can gain half a point as well as improving your guild stats by winning. I mean if you do things this way, by the time you start improving your guild stats everyone else would be light years ahead of you in terms of guild bonuses... | Grusharaburas:
It is possible to become the most powerful player in this game without wining any battle!
I would like to go back to the original post and address this point. This is simply not true.
sorry, but it's true.
i will try to explain you why it's true:
you wrote this:
I don't know. Losing thousands of battles to gain less than half a point of faction point doesn't seem like a huge deal when you can gain half a point as well as improving your guild stats by winning. I mean if you do things this way, by the time you start improving your guild stats everyone else would be light years ahead of you in terms of guild bonuses...
you explain that losers will have level4-5 faction skills and low hunting guild, where others will have level7 faction skill+big hunting guild and mercenary guild, while spending same ammount of time on the game.
it's totally true...losers are extemely weak compared to normal players with same ammount of battles.
but you are looking at time spent on the game to compare players.
unfortunately time is not a good way to compare players, only combat level matters. (look at message 94 for that, i explained it)
and you forgot to say that losers will still be combat level2 when others will be combat level7.
losers playing from months with 2000+battles and combat level2 are not in same category than normal players with 2000+battles.
they are in same category than new players with less than 50 battles...and when they meet them in tournaments, they crush them.
please read message 94, i answered to one of your precedent messages.
i hope it will help you to see why this game is unbalanced. | they are in same category than new players with less than 50 battles...and when they meet them in tournaments, they crush them.
Easily resolved. Don't want to deal with bottom feeders? Gain levels.
i hope it will help you to see why this game is unbalanced.
The game is already "balanced", in my opinion. The game appears to be balanced through solo quests and hunts. I've recently tried taking on record setting monsters. I lost. Badly. Four faction levels on your main class at sixth combat level is bad. It's the game's way of telling you, "Son, you need more faction points. Here, let me give you some." I'm going to continue trying them until I finally bring them down without assistance, gaining faction points in the process. I guess that makes me one of those "losers", eh? Are you willing to spoil that for people like me who likes to win but doesn't back down from challenges?
You guys should stop worrying about the bottom feeders. You should watch out for those guys who do lots of hunts, quests, and thief ambushes. They are the ones who are growing their characters efficiently. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Which reminds me, I need one of those thief guild invitations. You can't be uber if you're not a thief... |
Easily resolved. Don't want to deal with bottom feeders? Gain levels.
Sorry, but by avoiding them is hardly a solution.
kindly refer to previous posts like #105
1. bottom feeders will go up after tournaments, with loads of exp and diamonds. maybe still not fast enough to catch up with you, but what about new comers and the community?
2. if this style goes unchecked, people, including high lvl ones will do the same and force more people to join, and you will either lose every time pvp, or do the same. so, you wish to hide and there's nowhere to hide as it can be "contagious". | I'm going to continue trying them until I finally bring them down without assistance, gaining faction points in the process. I guess that makes me one of those "losers", eh? Are you willing to spoil that for people like me who likes to win but doesn't back down from challenges?
I respect your courage to challenge tough enemies.
and your ambition is different.
The difference is that you look for defeating tough guys, you don't look for the FSP in lost challenges, while losers wanted FSP with no exp as the only goal.
one solution might be getting no FSP for lost battle, afterall you don't look for it as your main source of skill while loser do it for 99% of the battles. | i think no FSP for lost battles is bad.
battle lost=0FSP,0gold,0XP...only 1 defeat in your personnal statistics. ouch
one of the ideas of this game is: learn from your mistakes.
it's actually what happends with FSP: you lose, lose, lose again...and your FSP grows.
but with XP: you lose, lose, lose, lose...and you are still combat level1 with 0 XP.
i think the best way to solve the problem is to give XP for lost battles.
for exemple:
sucesseful hunt: 150 gold, 0.5skill point, 100 XP, 1 hunter guild point
failed hunt 80%killed : 0 gold, 0.4skill point, 80XP, 0 hunter guild point
failed hunt 40%killed : 0 gold, 0.2skill point, 40XP, 0 hunter guild point
this way players doing their best but unable to win will not be blocked, and intentionally losers will not become stronger than normal players with same combat level.
I'm going to continue trying them until I finally bring them down without assistance, gaining faction points in the process. I guess that makes me one of those "losers", eh? Are you willing to spoil that for people like me who likes to win but doesn't back down from challenges?
i do the same.
i tried 100+ mercenary quests...won only 36 of them.
we are not "intentionally losers"
this thread is about intentionally losers. you are one of them if you lose against 30 goblins at level6 in order to increase skill points without level-up combat level.
if you try to win your battles, you are not an intentionally loser.
you will be defeated lot of times, but you will still win some battles and gain XP. | 119
Agreed, at least it would be much better than it is now, because in this way only winning would be the best choice.
But I prefer to get NOTHING if I lose (neither combat experience, nor skill points, nor hunt points, nor gold).
Because if you try to kill something almost impossible then you will lose 95% of time and eventually will level up, i.e. you will be punished (because of not getting hunt points).
Moreover, losing VERY HARD battles will cost you a huge amount of gold (some of my battles cost me 8000 gold per battle). And additionally to this punishment getting experience would be too hard punishment. |
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