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| Author | First Battle of the Clans Tournament |
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Comparing a tavern luck to FSP though? Not at all the same. You earned your FSP in battle and sitting at a stupid card game shouldn't give you an advantage in a supposedly even match.
It's some work, the same way one may earn his FSP in stupid hunts, lol!
Truth is that there's no "stupid" way of earning power in this game - some shun a path while others take it. Some play Two Tower game for fun, others just to reach the Tavern Drink goal, and it's 800 victories for both. Nothing to laugh at. People reaching this point certainly deserve the bonus.
By the way, it's worth 4 AP so it's perfectly fitting in any AP limit. | Clan leaders, please, read carefully!
Modi asked me to become the scorekeeper for this tournament and I accepted. So, if you have some scores which are missing from the scoring thread, please, send me your matches.
Also, we are pretty active and we support this tournament as much as we can. For that I decided to give a hand to the clan leaders involved in this tournament. In exchange, I need only for the clan leaders to make this announcement known in their clans.
Here we are!
1. When a pvp player from your clan enters online, he/she should enter on Group Battles room and search for his/her clan mates (e.g., with a message "Hi! I am from Rivendale for practising. I request clan assistance", or anything which might attract the attention of his/her clan mates).
2. Every 5-10 minutes, one player from a clan should announce the clan availability (e.g., "#365: bocp: 2 x 10 + 1 x 9; any ap, no enchants, tavern luck", with p standing for practising which shouldn't be there if looking for an official match). If your clan mates see a matching clan announcement, contact immediately the player who made the announcement. After negotiating the GB rules, search for a referee. If no referee, the game will be valid only if the 2 involved parts will send me their approval (I will check the match myself just to be sure it wasn't staged - for no further accusations).
3. Referee can be any pvp player who is not involved in any of the combatant clans.
4. As much as possible, all intra-clan communication and all the negotiations to be done privately (meaning, sending private messages in the chat) not to overload the chat window.
I think if every clan will try to implement those, we will see less complaints here.
On the other hand, I will ensure assistance every day from 19:00 to 22:00 during the working days and 12:00 - 21:00 during weekends (everything is in server time). If not me, I will ask my clan mates Acolyte and Gsuwit to assist your clan members. In addition, if any other clan leader can provide assistance in other period of the day, just make yourself known here.
I suppose we can start with trying this method. If it works, it will solve a lot of problems, but it needs some attention from the clan leaders to repeat this message to their clans periodically or, if needed, to contact directly the clan members.
Thank you for your time and support and see you on the battlefield! :)
Good luck! | Clans registered for this tournament (contacts in brackets):
#279 Dragon Slaughter (binghuo)
#137 German Elitehunters (Kascho)
#153 League of Shadows (limustudotcom or Modi)
#227 Steel Dragons (Arthedain)
#181 Elite Warriors (ViSao)
#186 Rivendale (Silk)
#365 Warriors' Guild Wrath (Kotrin)
#102 Dark Alliance (Kusika)
#209 The Shadow of Death (CGSMCMLXXV, Acolyte or Gsuwit)
#460 Blade of Faith (magicboy)
#395 Guardians of Dragons (MariusD or Netzu)
#149 CZ&SK Team (Almer)
Just for you to know which are the possible opponents. :)
A referee should only check that the game rules and the combatants agreement are fulfilled before and during the GB's. Nothing else.
Btw, sorry for spamming your mail boxes with my messages. Just ignore them or take them as reminders, please, but don't get offended by them. If you want me to stop sending you reminders, please, pm me and I will not send you any reminder. Thank you for understanding! | | Sorry, I just noticed a mistake. MariusD86 and not MariusD. I apologize for the inconvenience. | It's some work, the same way one may earn his FSP in stupid hunts, lol!
Truth is that there's no "stupid" way of earning power in this game - some shun a path while others take it. Some play Two Tower game for fun, others just to reach the Tavern Drink goal, and it's 800 victories for both. Nothing to laugh at. People reaching this point certainly deserve the bonus.
By the way, it's worth 4 AP so it's perfectly fitting in any AP limit.
Apples and oranges. You can't advance at all in this game by playing the card game. You can play 40k games and be first level. To compare that with FSP? Is it that important to gain an advantage for the tournament? Aren't we supposed to go in even forces and AP? You can put it to a vote but I know of 3, probably 4 clan leaders right now who think it shouldn't be allowed unless used in a set AP match and accounted for. Of course if admin would help us and stage a tournament, none of this conversation would be needed :P | To the guy who said:
you earned your FSP in battle and sitting at a stupid card game shouldn't give you an advantage in a supposedly even match.
Obviously def bonus from LG earned through hard typing when boss is not looking is really brave
What about the instructions stating guild bonuses apply to all type of combats?
Demanding no tavern drink is shame and lame :-( | To the guy who said:
you earned your FSP in battle and sitting at a stupid card game shouldn't give you an advantage in a supposedly even match.
Obviously def bonus from LG earned through hard typing when boss is not looking is really brave
What about the instructions stating guild bonuses apply to all type of combats?
Demanding no tavern drink is shame and lame :-(
Dont be shy, direct it at me. Shame is it? Really? Was it shame for the diamond upgraders to agree to downgrade for fairness? It must be so important to WG to gain that advantage huh, else you wouldn't be trying to insult players who disagree with it? For your information, Rivendale asked this in the GB chat BEFORE this was brought up here and we agreed it should be either left out of full arts battles or counted towards AP in set AP battles. Nobody cried about it either. Check out my one vs. one record vs__________ before saying I am lame. What is lame is that certain people want to have an advantage over others. You can run your tournament as you please but this was set up from the start to be even on the field. | a) the reason I said the guy who said is I neither cared nor noticed who wrote the post. Since it is you yes it goes to you
b) Shame and lame goes to the way of thinking not to person.
Demanding that a hard earned bonus earned via 800 card games must be out is shame and lame.
c) I still believe that Diamond upgrades must be out.
I would ousted Diamonds from official tournaments if it was on my hand.
I believe this cause it is an advantage that can be only bought through money, that's why it is unfair and I state this although I have donated.
d)WGW played 2 times in full knowledge of own disadvantage to honor the event you organised. However hosts should be more polite.
e) I don't think we had a problem with Elite, we had a problem with the chaotic way the event was organised. At least we made 2 games with Elite and we might make the other 2 eventually. They are nice people and a honorable guild. However the undefined battle system caused frustration.
f) What is your problem with WG and me in personal cause I receive flaming PMs every time I write something criticizing the system of battles conduct. Are you doing this with everyone or is it just me? | a) the reason I said the guy who said is I neither cared nor noticed who wrote the post. Since it is you yes it goes to you
b) Shame and lame goes to the way of thinking not to person.
Demanding that a hard earned bonus earned via 800 card games must be out is shame and lame.
c) I still believe that Diamond upgrades must be out.
I would ousted Diamonds from official tournaments if it was on my hand.
I believe this cause it is an advantage that can be only bought through money, that's why it is unfair and I state this although I have donated.
d)WGW played 2 times in full knowledge of own disadvantage to honor the event you organised. However hosts should be more polite.
e) I don't think we had a problem with Elite, we had a problem with the chaotic way the event was organised. At least we made 2 games with Elite and we might make the other 2 eventually. They are nice people and a honorable guild. However the undefined battle system caused frustration.
f) What is your problem with WG and me in personal cause I receive flaming PMs every time I write something criticizing the system of battles conduct. Are you doing this with everyone or is it just me?
How did you play at a disadvantage? I am not aware of this. You are stating that you played 2 matches with another clan who had an advantage over you. Show me.
Polite? Hmm, well I didn't think insulting another clan's manhood(as a man I write this) by claiming they are afraid was very polite at all. Notice you chose not to address that. LOS would be fired up by claiming this about us I can tell you right now.
If you take a jab at me here, expect me to respond. I know my limits and take stronger opinions off the forum. Please don't insult me by calling my "way of thinking" lame and shameful and then try to play victim when I respond. If you noticed I agreed with most of Kotrin's post but I did not care for labeling other clans afraid. That is a serious dig at a clan's pride. This isn't 1984 and I don't go for doublespeak that is so popular today. You act as if your claim of lame and shame should have been ignored. Sorry, that dog won't hunt here. | Guys, plz stop fighting, or leave it to your pm. Let's disucss more constructive here. We are here for fun, aren't we? :D
Thanks to every clan leader and clanmate's effort to make this tournament processing.
But I have to say time issue is the biggest problem we meet here. Another one is the matched lvl. It's hard for two clans find the matched combat lvl players at the the same time. We waste a lot of time and efforts in chatting channel or pm to set up a single battle. Also, we have some other minor problems. Do you agree with me?
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How about we make some changes here, to make it simpler and easier to set up group battles and enjoy the fun of group battles?
Proposal II:
1. The battles are NOT limited to clan vs clan, it will be as normal group battles. Everyone can creat it and join it, even if clanless players. So every player will have a chance to fight at his/her own schedule, don't have to wait for his/her clanmates or the opposite clan.
2. Each winner will bring his/her clan 1 battle point. But every player can fight for only one of his clan.
3. The clans will be ranked as total of battle points, and also average of battle points per clanmates (using total number of clanmates regardless of involving in the tournament or not).
3. The battles must NOT be matched lvl, but if there are lvl difference, the creater should creat it as a random battle to make it fair. And the battle creater can set up his/her own battle requirments, including AP, enchanting, diamond upgrade.... Anyone join it should show respects to these requirments. If you don't like the requirments, don't join and creat your own as you like.
4. Every player should fight on his/her best, even if your clanmates or friends are on your opposite team. Stage or lost-on-purpose battles won't be counted in the tournament. If there is any such battle, please report it in CAA:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_thread.php?id=125
We use keepers decision as offical.
If any thing beyond that, a voting among clan leaders make the decision.
What's the difference of this tournament from our normal group battles?
The battle itself has no difference than our normal group battle. But clanmates knows that their fighting will bring battle points to their clan, so it will encourage more clanmates join group battles. This is our purpose: More Group Battles, More Fun!
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I think the proposal II will fit us better than my proposal I, as every player will have a chance to fight at his/her own schedule, don't have to wait for his/her clanmates or the opposite clan.
But I also know there could be some shortage in the proposal II. So please feel free to add your comments.
If most clans agree, we can use this as our tournament II or modification of tournament I.
If we use it as tournament II, I hope someone would like to take the place of host, since I will be busy in following weeks in real life.
If we use it as modification of tournament I, the old score of clan-vs-clan battles can be added into the new battle points. But other battles (non-clan-vs-clan) ONLY after our future offical announcement (after agree of most clan leaders) will be counted. | 2. Each winner will bring his/her clan 1 battle point. But every player can fight for only one of his clan.
sorry for misleading in my sentence. I mean if 1 player has multi-clans in the tournament, like nnt000 (:D), you have to choose only one of your clans in the tournament. Your battle points will be counted to that clan only, not the other clans. And every player is encouraged to fighting as many battles as he/she can.
sorry for any other typo, English is my second language. =.= | 1. The battles are NOT limited to clan vs clan, it will be as normal group battles. Everyone can creat it and join it, even if clanless players. So every player will have a chance to fight at his/her own schedule, don't have to wait for his/her clanmates or the opposite clan.
this one may ruin every single thing about the clan fight. | | Yeah Bing, while clan vs clan is what we would like to have, it seems near impossible to get it done. Unless someone has another workable idea that would solve our problems, we do need to change many things. I was telling Kotrin of another idea I had. You invite all players to the tournament who wish to play and give some time to get the word out. Players sign up on the forum and we then have our player-pool. Then we have 2-4 captains who will draft players from each level for their team until the pool is empty. Start with level 14 and work your way down. Say you had 20, 10th level players who signed up. Captains choose from this pool of 20 and then move to the next level. Then we create team names (Fighting Tigers/Brawling Bullies...) and players fight for their squads in some tournament outline. We create a tournament clan and Arctic can quickly approve.All tournament players join it and are labeled in the description box next to their names. Then we can easily see who is online and even send out clan mail to get matches. When the tournament is over, new captains are chosen and we draft new teams. If we narrow this down to 4 teams or even two then we have the best chance to make this work. Just throwing the idea out there. It would be like a fantasy sports league with captains having to make choices about what factions he/she will want and so on. Whatever we decide, the goal is to make easy GBs and have fun. | Hi binghuo, thanks for your constructive criticism, but I beg to disagree with your proposal. The whole purpose of a clan war or inter-clan tournament was to have clans fighting each other, like #365 vs #420. It was hard to set-up but had a meaning.
If we fall down to member level - let alone open it to heroes not even member of any clan - I fail to see the purpose of this tournament over any regular group battle. Imagine we set a 2-2 battle "#365 Warriors' Guild Wrath vs. #279 The Dragon Slaughter" but set it to Random or Even type. We have one WGW and one DS member on one side, facing one WGW member and one DS member on the other side. Whichever team wins means absolutely nothing!
Worse still, imagine a 3-3 WGW/DS random with 3 WGW on one side, and 1 WGW and 2 DS members on the other: the incentive would be very high for the lone WGW member to act as a "traitor" and bring victory to his clan mates...
Third example, we set a 2-2 WGW vs All and end up with 4 WGW members. WGW always end in the winning side!
The purpose of this tournament is to have (friendly) inter-clan battles. Already, I'm not too happy with the "training" people have started to define, as if some battles should count towards tournament score and others shouldn't. What's the point? I'm also surprised by the very defensive stance most seem to have regarding AP, enchantment, diamonds, tavern drink and so on - as if any in-game advantage, no matter how small, would be enough to scream abuse. Who cares? I've fought people under drink influence in the past while having none myself and made no fuss about it.
I couldn't care any less about clan score but it seems others are mesmerized by it :/
Anyway, I'd like this tournament project to stick at least to one single clan on each side.
Just my two cents. | For Binghuo:
A similar idea was implemented on .ru when there were the wars against different factions. Each player got a coefficient which was summed up to the clan coefficient. But there they had an AI team to beat. If you look in the combat level 10/11, you will see that my clan has almost half of the active players for pvp and that will create a disadvantage for other clans. On the other hand, scaling to the number of players from the clan will bring a big disadvantage for big clans with too low combat level players or too high combat level players since it is hard to find them. I agree with your proposal, but within the condition to have 1 player in a group combat from one clan, otherwise to have clan versus all, with all a combo of clans.
In addition, I raised this problem of scoring from the beginning.
For Modi:
What is then the difference in between intra-clan tournament as Kotrin and other clans are doing it and this tournament?
For Kotrin:
I introduced "training" (or "practising") combats to attract new players to pvp. Many clans have inexperienced players who would like to try pvp, but the clans won't allow them to participate in a tournament because of pride. If one can provide a little bit of practising for those players until they get a little bit of experience, that would be a gain not only for GB's generally, but also for the tournament because the clan from where such players come will throw on the battlefield a larger number of players. Wouldn't anyone enjoy more players on the battlefield?
One more thing, Kotrin. I know you are the representative for your clan, but moving from one chat to the other as a mailman slows down the process of finding a gb for your clan. As it happened yesterday evening, you left to send the requests from CZ&SK and by the time you came back, Almer got confused about what's happening and created a random. No offence, but my request was to bring your active players in a common place and I didn't make that request just to feel myself important, but I have already some experience with the gb negotiations and time is valuable for everyone. Everyone wants to know how it is going and to know the opponents of his/her clan (what factions and who will play). Only I go blindfolded in a group combat because either I trust my players or just for keeping this tournament running.
For all:
Maybe my conception about this tournament is a little bit different from the idea itself of a tournament. My aim is to attract players to pvp and also to increase the quality of gb's. I am not the best strategist, but, even me, I noticed many basic mistakes at the players fighting in and outside the tournament. As I said and stress it once more, I am not a very good strategist and I make many mistakes on the battlefield and as clan military leader by underestimating the opponent (like it happened yesterday when the girls from Rivendale beat two of my boys, and we tried not to be gentlemen :D) by throwing on the battlefield the wrong team, but I love challenges and I want to learn new things. If my opponent is weak, I take no joy from that combat because everything is easy, nothing to learn, consequently, boring. It's the same if I don't have any adversary. I enter the training combats because I want to attract players to pvp and I try to discuss after an "official" gb with the opponent clan representative about the mistakes during the combat (in case we win) or with my clan mates (in case we lose). | Ayyy, too much stuff. Anything not constructive should be on PM.
Anyway, as a matter of fact i agree with the idea of Modi and Bing, and GC
Let me explain it in a way that make more sense, from the beginning i knew clan vs clan fight would be a problem but most of you don't see that because we never had one so i figure we should have so we can all see. I knew setting up matches is a big problem because we previously had a clan battle and what we call friendly clan battle vs DA. However, it was hard to setup matches, and i can say the only friendly person was Antos and kusika from DA. Everyone is thinking about representing their clan and had to win, so was it suppose to be "friendly?", who knows.
The problem in setting up this kind of clan tournament, is first not all people in clan likes to do GB and adding to different timezone, then different in lvl, it'll be a problem.
So first is increasing GB participation by creating a clan, then all the people who want to participate join that clan. Those who have FULL arts, then later on we can do clan gb tournament.
Now let's explain the logic.
Let me ask you, what's more important, increase GB participation on this server and give GB experience to your clanmate or want to see your clan win even though not many people participate?
Having a tournament to see which clan is better and ignore the other part is like a child learning how to run before walking.
Also, i point out so many time. Having full arts is a commitment to GB, when u put something bigger on the line, u'll take it more seriously. I've had friends who i fought GB with since lvl 8-9. We do our best every battle, and at the end of the day we're still friend. Yet i see some people in GB who just do min AP, and losing mean the end of life for them.
As to what kotrin said on top, if you have 3 WGW on 1 side and 1 WGW 2 DS on other side, and most likely the 1 WGW betray, you're kidding me. If someone who does not have SPORTSMANSHIP like that, should be kick out from the tournament, you should know that better.
First of all kotrin, i respect that your clan even participate in this tourney and you made an attempt to play. However, what you brought up is like pointing arrows to others, u're not the only one who's frustrated alot of people do because can't setup match. They don't shoot arrows at others. Most of your argument are one sided, i wonder if you ever care to look at that, i have a feeling that you had a position and defend it til you die. Anyway, no need to send a reply back to me because after i said this, up to you if u can read what you wrote and think. AGAIN, no need to reply to me.
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I am into the idea of creating a clan for GB, then we can get people in, and do GB battle, i'll figure out how we count the point and rank the clan. If u're up for the idea, let me know. | ViSao, I think you already know my opinion (which is similar to your: I want as well more pvp player in the gb's and that's why I "invented" practice group battles in between the clans). I would gladly trade this tournament for that idea of a common clan of group battles. In this way we would have no cheaters in the group battles.
But, I would go on now with this "tournament" because if we change something which is going slowly, but moving, we will add more confusion to the clan leaders. If we go on with this tournament and develop a new idea for the future, we would still have some gb's and that will be fruitful for us all. If we stop here this tournament and we start to think of something else, we will lose even what we achieved by now (Rivendale, CZ&SK Team, SoD and maybe some other clans started to bring new players in pvp). My only request is for the clan leaders to not challenge only SoD because we have a small pool of players which do whatever they can to add joy to the gb's, but they are limited in number. So, if you could contact each other via pm with your requests of combat levels and time zone, and sending your fighters to spy on Group Battles chat, maybe we can increase the number of gb's. | Why can't the teams be predefined?
And the arts-AP predefined?
And the guilds to count score like F1 aka driver - team ?
And responsible persons along with their availability hours per team predefined?
I forecast that without predefined teams - AP rules etc we will rollover to previous situation | Ayyy, too much stuff. Anything not constructive should be on PM.
Too bad you seem unable to follow your own advice. | for ViSao:
I am into the idea of creating a clan for GB, then we can get people in, and do GB battle, i'll figure out how we count the point and rank the clan. If u're up for the idea, let me know.
Count the LOS guys in for this. It is the logical solution for a lot of our problems. Having all tourney players in one place is so much easier than running around trying to see who is online from other clans. We can also have our own clan chat channel and I think we could start a nice GB community and have a lot of fun. Let's do it. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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