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| Author | First Battle of the Clans Tournament |
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With a total point system, what happens when a clan lets their friends win 12 points to 0?
What happens if they then refuse to fight another clan with a chance of winning the tourney so they get 0 points from this battle?
The answer = it would effectively give the first clan a 24 point advantage! Where is the fairness in this?
First to 12 points with 1 point for overall winner is the only fair way to score. If clans choose to fight less battles (and both agree), it is still fair.
round 1
--------
clan 1 v clan 2 = winner clan 1 (1 point)
clan 3 v clan 4 = winner clan 4 (1 point)
clan 5 v clan 6 = winner clan 5 (1 point)
clan 7 v clan 8 = winner clan 8 (1 point)
clan 9 v clan 10 = winner clan 9 (1 point)
clan 11 v clan 12 = winner clan 12 (1 point)
round 2
--------
same as 1 but against another opponent
etc
After each clan has played all the others they will have a max of 11 points
If two clans tie then there would be a play off between them.
_____________________________________
Points based system
clan 1 v clan 2 = clan 2 lets clan 1 all matches = clan 1 (12 points)
clan 3 v clan 4 = clan 3 does not fight = clan 4 (0 points)
clan 5 v clan 6 =
clan 7 v clan 8 =
clan 9 v clan 10 =
clan 11 v clan 12 =
I am not saying this will happen, but what happens if scores are close at end? It is too easy for someone to abuse the system and spoil the results. | oh yea one last thing. If a clan cannot complete 12 points worth of battles in a 7 day period--then they are not interested in participating in this event in my opinion.
I run a business out here, have access to the internet all day long, and hardly have time to log in to work and play on lwm. I make the time to do so whenever I NEED a break, etc. With my crazy schedule I was able to participate in 1 of the fights (a 3v3 that we lost) for the entire week. It isn't hard, people. You just have to want to do it.
So for future events, we really, really, need bonified deadlines. IE you must complete the battles if you want to participate by "x" date. | Personally, sorry for barging in but I dont think there would be much of a problem if the battles are all scheduled on server time and all go on at the EXACT SAME TIME. Those here in The East are at the receiving end when games are held at around 7pm server time while we're experiencing 1am local time. I suggest that all tournament times be pre-planned so as to ensure we have a steady flow of players, and thus, there wont be a problem with clans not getting enough points to finish of the week. There wont be cases of clans not being informed of the timing and are not able to send representatives.
Do pour your opinions on this, I'm just a suggester as I've had no luck with my clans in setting a battle due to the fact that many players are not consistently online. (Lost many hours of sleep waiting for a game through till 3am).
Its just an opinion, for all to have some thought on.
Cheers all | Regarding posts referring possibilities of a clan playing to lose with friendly clan.
In case we start thinking of ridiculous and unhonorable behavior, the easiest way to sabotage a match is in Modi's scoring system by not playing the rest of the games after losing 2 games.
However I call it negative thinking. | Too much bargaining for my liking. Let's meet in the battlefield and have there our divergences settled. As far as I can see, the main "negotiation" is about the number of GB's. So what LoS and SoD had 8 games? We just love it and we showed it is possible. And, believe me, at least 2 games were 1h30' or so. We are here to fight, not to do "politics". If you would try half as we tried, you wouldn't complain about the number of GB's. Time zones? Well, LoS covers a wide range as we do even if we are a small clan. How to score this tournament? Well, is that why you don't have GB's? I see 2 GB's per week coming from each clan. This is not tournament and not a way to bring players into pvp's. Whatever scoring system you adopt, if you are good and active, it won't matter the scoring at the end of the day. You have a strong adversary, that is good. Accept the defeat in case of it! I would even go to the point to suggest that no scoring should be for this tournament. Let's have fun! Let's mobilize ourselves! Let's get used with GB's! Those are the major points here. Prove that you are active and attract players toward pvp's. This will be the final victory which will really matter.
You do it for advertisement? Let me tell you which is the best advertisement for your clan: to be seen in the Group Battles most of the time. Players are asking for hunt assistance or trying to do a pvp, where do you think they will have their browser set on? Here:
https://www.lordswm.com/group_wars.php
Just be active and you will get requests. Fight well and it doesn't matter if you lose or win because the audience will decide for itself who might have won.
Players get bored most of the time waiting for the next merc or ambush or hunt. They either go on forum which becomes boring when nobody is posting for hours anything or the same questions are asked, or they watch a hunt or GB. If they see your clan all the time there and they see you offer a nice show, they will come and come to watch you fighting again and again. And that, my dear ones, does more than any bumping of your clan threads all the time on the forum.
Please, if you entered this group of clans, prove yourself on the battlefield, not on the forum. If you don't have pvp players in your clans, show your mates ongoing GB's, discuss the mistakes and some of them will be willing to give it a try. Give those players the chance to start building their own experience by organizing GB's for practicing. Low faction level and not enough players in the clan to balance such a GB? Not a problem! Just ask other clans for help in setting in for a GB. But at least try to be more active.
I am sorry for my very long post, but I am pretty concerned about the quality of this idea of Battle of Clans if the main fight is going on the forum. I mean no offense to anyone with this post.
Cheers | | Sorry for double posting, but many of clans here have expectations of becoming War Clans. How will you become a true War Clan if you aren't able to present yourself on the battlefield but twice a week? Think of that problem and allow this tournament to help you in finding the answer. | Regarding posts referring possibilities of a clan playing to lose with friendly clan.
In case we start thinking of ridiculous and unhonorable behavior, the easiest way to sabotage a match is in Modi's scoring system by not playing the rest of the games after losing 2 games.
However I call it negative thinking.
Um, you couldnt have the other clan not play after losing 2 games in Bing's system? Uh, why not? And in Bing's system it would cost how many points? Yeah, much more than one. No, there are no cheaters on this server, what was I thinking? LOL In fact you bring up a good point, although accidentally. Playing a 12 point system clans could easily fall behind with no way of catching up and then having no reason to work hard to set up matches. Also, the one point system has a good chance of having a tie and a climactic championship...does Bings? | Here is also another suggestion...sometimes some clans are on, and others are not, that are registered for event.
So perhaps we should just have a "x" time to play against "x" clans to figure out scoring.
This way we make the most of the "Time" differences, and keep players busy. | Hi,
I am busy at this time working for Arctic to help clean up the cheaters. I know it is hard to organize matches but we should continue with the effort because not only is it fun for those who join, it brings attention to GBs and we saw a lot of activity in the BG chat recently. I was excited to see a possible change in atmosphere on this server.Players who never GB were coming out to play for their clans and a lot of us were learning how to play GBs. This is a good thing and a lot of fun to play and watch too. Now I am extremely busy and can't push to get matches going. Please clan leaders, do not let this fail. We can change the face of the game if we put all our efforts into it. | | when is this tournament starting ? | It is begun, expert. Do you have a clan to register?
Every clan who want to challenge us, we are on Group Battles room from chat. | The weekend is over and we had another good time on the battlefield. We've met 3 clans (with one we just practised) and had 4 GB's. I would like to the clans who deposited effort in meeting us on the battlefield and to apologize to those we couldn't answer their challenges (after all, we are just a small clan).
Good luck to you all! :) | During first week we played two battles against #181 Elite Warriors, and that was frustrating.
During second week we played #186 Rivendale just once - and it's only late that this battle was finally counting towards tournament score. Rivendale was just mostly Asia-based.
During this third week, we are supposed to battle against #460 Blade of faith. Already, magicboy is telling me he doesn't want to play full arts, can only play around 10:30 server time (because he's not in the same time zone, obviously.)
Therefore, I'm searching for an EUROPE-BASED Clan able to play on evenings somewhere around 19:00 21:00 server time - or any would-be clan with enough level 9-10 players in this timezone.
Please apply via PM. Serious candidates only, please.
We are adults and worked a lot to be properly equipped, so we can play - and prefer playing - without restrictions of any kind (AP limits, enchantments, diamond upgrades, whatever.) However, considering the number of scared warriors crying in fear as soon as we make such a proposal, we'll lower our standards if necessary.
IMHO, this tournament leads nowhere. The next one should at least start with a definition of the proper time zone and a clan pool for each, so at least, these clans can fight. | IMHO, this tournament leads nowhere. The next one should at least start with a definition of the proper time zone and a clan pool for each, so at least, these clans can fight.
Seems like a lot of clans signed up for this that were not prepared to actually field players or show up/contact other clans for fights. We got an idea by now who the clans are who are putting an effort into this. Now LOS is not behind in the scoring so I make this suggestion based on the reality of the situation at hand. We need to scrap this tournament, dump the clans who haven't showed up to fight and figure out what we can do to improve it.
At least we have some idea what works and what doesn't and who will be the clans able to field teams. When we began we did not know even from our own clans, who would show up for battle. Now we also have that data. The tournament can be good but all the clan leaders must be more involved to make it happen. Time zones seem to be a big problem. Maybe we can do a tournament that is team-based more than clan-based? That way even level 14s can play. You could pick your team mates from a pool of friends and enter the tournament that way. Teams can be assembled from across the clans instead of clan vs clan. What do you think about that? | Therefore, I'm searching for an EUROPE-BASED Clan able to play on evenings somewhere around 19:00 21:00 server time - or any would-be clan with enough level 9-10 players in this timezone.
Vonemar's Steel Dragons made similar requests but for the level 11 players. It seems that if there is a time compatibility, there is a problem with the levels. Nasty.
We are adults and worked a lot to be properly equipped, so we can play - and prefer playing - without restrictions of any kind (AP limits, enchantments, diamond upgrades, whatever.) However, considering the number of scared warriors crying in fear as soon as we make such a proposal, we'll lower our standards if necessary.
Hmm... I wouldn't name warriors as scared warriors crying in fear just because they don't have full set of arts. From my experience with pvp players, their arts finish before they can get the full amount of gold to be able to re-buy them all the time. And you should know that very well. Even with your renting system, it looks that many of you don't do pvp if you can afford only full arts combats. During this tournament I reached TG4 as well and I can say that I barely survived with the money, and I enrolled myself a lot! My pvp players do a lot of extra-tournament group battles as well, so, I don't blame them for not being able to do full arted GB's all the time.
Also, your requests are something like "let's do it now or never". Twice I got from you that kind of attitude and I can say that from now on I will decline such challenges if I will meet them in the future. I already announced our time availability and we did a lot of efforts to go beyond that time table even if we are a small clan. We are also a clan with real life and lately we spent a lot of time in front of our PC's playing this game. I cannot push any more further my clan.
And by the way, I don't know about your clans organization, but we don't have only pvp players. Players with some other skills are required in the clan, too. My clan is small, but we support each other in all the aspects of this game. But for getting that support, we need players with different skills. So, if you see some players online, that doesn't mean we have those players for pvp.
For organizers: if you consider my clan unworthy of this tournament, just let me know and we will withdraw ourselves from this tournament. | There is no need for accusations, however it seems that every guild participated having in mind that others will manage to fit in own schedule and requirements.
I can understand Kotrin's frustration up to a point, having in mind that we searched almost every evening for opponents and could not find.
However there could be other guilds having similar problems in another side of the planet... | | | [Post deleted by moderator Kotrin // too many typos] | First, I'd like to mention that I stand no grudge against any clan we've been trying to battle with in recent weeks - whether #181 Elite Warriors, #186 Rivendale or #420 Blade of Honour. One cannot complain that other people live in a different area of the world ^_^. And although I've not heard of someone failing to contact us, other clans may have had the same issue when trying to play against us.
I was just trying to fulfill the schedule presented by Binghuo here:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864302&page=5#255250
Now, for your other point:
I wouldn't name warriors as scared warriors crying in fear just because they don't have full set of arts
This teasing was perhaps a bit excessive, but as far as I know, we pay our artifacts the same price than everyone else, and sometimes struggled to rent arts among us. A But this problem extends beyond mere artifact choices, really. I don't see why people working hard to achieve some in-game advantage should forfeit it just because someone is unwilling to comply. We agreed on AP limitations anyway, but here are other examples:
- I've seen people refusing to join a GB because they disliked factions we were fielding.
- I've seen people refusing to join a GB because some of us had the Tavern drink effect, and none of their team had.
Fear is the name I give to the underlying feeling, even if official explanations differ.
Why should we forfeit the investment of 800+ tavern games? Where does it ends? Being unwilling to join because the other guy has more faction skill points than you? Because his enchantments are stronger than yours? Because the other guy has more group battle experience than you? Because he knows his/her teammates better?
Tavern brings +1 luck, same as faction skill 9 last time I checked. I'd like to know why a Tavern Drink, and only Drink, is seen as unfair then.
We never declined some group battle offer, even when settings were unfavorable to us. In my opinion, AP limits may be acceptable but:
- Enchantment should be allowed (they increase AP of artifacts after all)
- Tavern Drink effect should not be counted towards the total, as it's not an artifact.
- Factions and faction levels should not be restricted.
There is no need to wear top-notch artifacts all the time. Second-line artifacts (like a Steel Cuirass over some Platemail) offer decent features for a fraction of the cost.
But this is a different topic (for another thread maybe?) and it has not much to do with the inter-tournament thread. As I said, we are ready to downgrade our abilities just in hopes to have some opponents, and these issues pale in comparison with the time zone one. Yet, I believe we could have do more group battles - even with the time zone problems - if we had not met possible opponent crying in fear. No better words, sorry ;)
I'm ready to discuss it further by PM if you want! | Tavern brings +1 luck, same as faction skill 9 last time I checked. I'd like to know why a Tavern Drink, and only Drink, is seen as unfair then.
We never declined some group battle offer, even when settings were unfavorable to us. In my opinion, AP limits may be acceptable but:
- Enchantment should be allowed (they increase AP of artifacts after all)
- Tavern Drink effect should not be counted towards the total, as it's not an artifact.
- Factions and faction levels should not be restricted.
We were in the GB chat two days back when the tavern drink was brought up and we all agreed it was considered as an amulet of luck in their match because they had a set AP. Comparing a tavern luck to FSP though? Not at all the same. You earned your FSP in battle and sitting at a stupid card game shouldn't give you an advantage in a supposedly even match. I do not agree that matches should be rejected for any other reason though. You field whoever shows up to fight at the time. If those of us who can afford diamond upgrades willingly downgrade troops to even up a match, surely your card players can do the same and not invoke the extra luck. It's a matter of fairness and if it isn't an advantage, players wouldn't trigger it for the match. Let's all play on an even field. We already faced factions we thought we would lose against but we played anyway and had fun. I got a lot of PMs from different people accusing one side or the other of things. We stressed fun and interaction over winning and we are as competitive as the next clan. Our leader played in a few matches when he could but many matches were played without him and I think some clan leaders think the tournament revolves around them instead of their clan members. If clan X leader can't play in some cases, their is no match set up and that is lame. The clans we faced so far all were good sports, win or lose and I have nothing but respect for them. I hope we can work something out because it is a lot of fun to play and also to watch your clan fight. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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