Forums-->General game forum-->
<<|<|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12
| Author | Laborers Guild |
|---|
| :D}} i guess we'll have to make a separate thread "Arghmage and his infected zombies", so the conversation about LG could continue here... :} | OK, nevermind the infected obsession.
Takesister seems to be a great supporter of these changes. Why people dont accept assist? There are simply no hunts at level 12 to assist. Even when they are, most of them are long, boring and hard to win anyway. I am slightly confused about this update. One positive view on this is most multis dont fight at all and it will become harder to pump your main with farmed gold when you have to actually fight with each multi. This point can hardly be disproved.
For Robai-like farmers, it wont work too much. They just have too much easy hunts before them. Also to the whole "jealousy for my way of play", is it really a way to actually play the game when you do nothing else than enroll? I myself had few days when I told myself, have a break, just play cards and enroll. Those days are gone for me forever but this might actually save my life in the long run.
To explain:
Player gets a feeling, I dont have time to play but I can at least enroll. This way, anything you do, work, study, meet with friends, you think about minutes left to your next enroll. It is unhealthy and it will be gone soon. The whole purpose of enrolling is you are online, you enroll, have few fights, you go away, thats how you should play the game.
How many times: Was enrollment first thing you did when you came home? You was thinking about enrollment when being home while doing something else? You pauzed a movie, game or study just to enroll? It is sick and it should stop. | Omega22,
I think they need to make some change on HG. The previous chance to hunt 1/3
or 2/3 of current monsters' size is good, esp for higher lvl HG. Unfortunately,
this has been discarded and made this game quite hard and boring for higher
combat levels. I check their battles list, most of them are just intentional
loss to caravans and occasionally some GB.
I think for better development of this game, either they modify the way HG
works or release more events like battles. Otherwise, I doubt if there are
more players like Kusika or more like Kiaune. Even Kusika hasn't played so much as before. | | I don't know, even if you are willing to take the workaholic rule (I am, in general), I can't see how having the enrolling close the chat makes any in game sense. | Please stay to the topic. This thread was created to talk about the Laborers guild update and not to talk about hunts.
Please stop the discussion about the zombies, because the points are made now, there is ''almost'' always an option to do an hunt every 10 times you enroll.
More off-topic posts will be deleted. | My thoughts on the LG rule change in response to others.
First Robai
May have not fought for months but during his lack of fights he was spending money. And playing other aspects of the game.
Gamblers' guild: 9 (522) +28
Smiths' guild: 3 (217.71) +92.3
Enchanters' guild: 3 (3464) +0 (-)
Weaponsmith: 9 (3418) +0
Armorer: 1 (8) +21
Jewelcrafter: 2 (38) +33
Despite his response and other players reaction to him. I don't think he was abusing the game. He just wanted to spend money playing other aspects of the game more then some aspects. At level 7 he has put some time in the game. And unlike low levels multis gold he was spending on market for his nice supply of enchanting materials was being returned to the economy. All the gold he spent on raising enchanting returned to the economy by him buying enchanting materials.
Takesister three opinion on things.
Post 122
If the situation at YL is only due to Merc Questers, the Lab would be out of money too, why only Sulphur dune? It's because the enrollers only enroll and not buy
If a person who was only enrolling went to YL they would have to be very unintelligent. I can honestly say I hate Yellow lake. I went there only for one reason to get level 2 TG. And I have no been back since. Reasons why 1 if I am lucky to get an enroll I have to make sure the moment I get an enroll i re-enroll meaning no fighting during the enroll period or I lose my spot. 2 SH BG and EB are better enrolling locations and get the over flow from YL. 3 the reason sulphur dune runs out of money is because theirs not enough demand for sulphur.
"Maybe it's how I see things... Maybe it's because I feel that people do too much theiving, too much hunting, too much questing and they start complaining that they can't fight anymore... Maybe it's not the right strategy for playing this game, just as it's not advisable to do GBs at level 1-5? Maybe it's not meant to be played that way?"
This rule was to encourage fighting and discourage doing nothing but enroll. What you just described is that people who enjoy actively playing the game should be punished. Because they are playing the wrong way for wanting to fight when they can.
post 122
Post 100
What I don't understand is why don't people willingly assist hunts or ask for hunt assist at high levels or actually figure out new strategies and methods of winning the hunts and quests they find difficult?
I find it hard to believe that you think the higher levels don't do just this.
Finally Kotrin Post 80
Kotrin brought to light the fact that Multifactioning has become that much harder. And what used to be a chance to slowly lose and gain fsp and trying hard you would eventually catch up to now having that much harder a time. As a person who multifactioned I know this quite well as I spent a large amount of time losing every single day. Before I finally began winning again.
He also brought up the fact that this rule does hurt the higher level and regular players much more then it does the people who this was targeting. I have to agree as the low levels who are rich and didn't Fight until now have labor levels of 6-7 and no requirement to wear ap mean while if they ever did decide to reach 14 guess what they will have the ability to make exponentially more then any current 14 can as they level vs when the average current level 10-14 player leveled.
Finally my own take on the rule on a whole.
The rule wasn't made to punish high level players and prevent them from fighting at least that is what I believe. However it does just that. With the minimum AP rule in affect + this rule. Those who fight regularly are being assaulted quite hard. And at higher level you are dependent on other players as is. Every single recommendation about merc quests and other are temporary.
This rule does encourage taking advantage of low level players through group battles. It doesn't encourage even group battles because even g | I am curious.
If Administrators don't like to see low level players with million of gold and doing nothing... isn't it easier to make a rule and restriction that for certain level, we have max gold?
eg :
Combat level 1: max gold 10,000
Combat level 2: max gold 20,000
Combat level 3: max gold 50,000
Combat level 4: max gold 100,000
Combat level 5: max gold 200,000
If they reach max gold, enroll will not give them gold anymore. Simple enough to achieve "Admin's goal", I think.
For socialization period, give them (any player with combat level < 6 with more than 200,000 gold) 3 months period to level up OR to spend their gold to abide the rule. If they fail to do that, CUT their gold. I think 3 Months are very reasonable to level up to combat level 6.
For combat level 6 and above, there is no Gold restriction. Because these are the real players. They play, and they need gold to support them. Being like Robai (for example). Although he didn't fight and staying in level 6 for months, he spent golds by being a smith/enchanter. I don't think there is something wrong with him.
I am sure, any intelligent low level millionaire will level up ASAP or spend their gold if they don't want their gold to be cut. But on the other hand, this rule will not harm high level players who play this game. | | all in all i think this update was not a good one, whatever the admins reasons for implementing this rule there is surely a better way to impress their will. ultimately this update is just restricting and forcing players to play a certain way. | | It sure makes people fight more, only less than 1200 online right now but There are 482 battles currently in progress, with 622 characters involved. | My take on all of this...
Any change implemented (this one or any others) that penalizes high level players, directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally, is not a good precedent to set.
Our high level players are generally viewed as those who are most successful. They worked hard, were dedicated to playing, and succeeded within the established framework of the game. When they are penalized by a change such as this, and are fairly vocal in their objections to it, this has a demoralizing affect on those who are still struggling to reach the top.
If we look above us and see those who were very successful penalized, some of our desire to be as successful is removed... why work hard and dedicate the countless hours necessary to succeed if the end result is further hardship?
The above sentiment is certainly over dramatized a bit to help make the point clear, but I just wanted to highlight the issue that changes with a negative impact on the top players should be imposed only with the utmost care and caution. | From Imperial Reformation post #2
Council Feurlis
“First, as you have mentioned, our Lords have grown insecure and troubled. As such they have grown complacent, spending their time securing their own borders, and filling their own coffers. In my opinion, Your Majesty, the Lords spend more time accumulating gold rather than taking up arms to defend this Empire. They ought to be quick of wit and well trained rather than sitting on their backsides collecting dust. I seek to pass a law that all Lords must take up arms from time to time, to ensure that their training does not go to waste.”
To me it seems the new LG rule is successful.
=> #battle/online player has increased! | I call this rule logical.
If one has access from work, he/she would gather lots of gold without playing.
That is, mandating one victory even a hunt assist every 10 -12 enrollments is not much... | MathProfessor:
To me it seems the new LG rule is successful.
=> #battle/online player has increased!
The number of players increased considerably, because:
1) we have waited for so long for a new update and finally we got it,
2) moreover, it was not just an update, but it was the Grand update, which consists of many changes.
And I'm sure that without workaholic rule the number of players would increase even more, because some players returned to this game to see if there is some new updates and were happy to see big changes, but disappointed of wokaholic rule and decided not to play anymore.
Anyway, why the number of players is so small (only 1000-1500) for such a good game (I mean HoMM series)?
That number (about 1000) doesn't increase for a very long time.
I'm sure that many players left this game because of some rules of this game. Players posted many good ideas in 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum, but admins ignored ALL of them (yes, ALL).
I would make a really good business of this game. Believe me, this game needs only some small changes and I'm sure that it would have 10 times more players (per 1 year), which would give 8 times more sold diamonds.
The main rule:
- EVERY player in this game should be able to play this game as he wants to play
For example:
- don't tell how many arts to wear (AP rule),
- don't tell when to fight (workaholic rule),
- don't tell how to fight (3.16. rule),
- don't tell what to suggest in 'Ideas and Suggestion' forum (8. rule),
- don't tell when to buy diamonds (no matter how hard this game will be, the number of diamonds bought won't increase)
- don't tell when to level-up (workaholic rule (unsuccessful try, the effect is the opposite), tieves rule with +100% xp, etc.),
- don't force players intentionally lose battles (again, workaholic rule, I mean high level player vs impossible caravans (because hunts and mercs already too hard), give 1/3 and 2/3 hunt rule back instead, at least for high HG levels and high combat levels)
In short:
- don't tell how to play.
It's not about the difficulty of this game, it's about playing style. | I do not necessarily agree with all the points Robai makes, but I do agree with the general sentiment. The sentiment is similar to the one I expressed in the "Paradox" thread. At the risk of going momentarily off-topic, if we look at some of the most successful games of the past several years, one of the things that many have in common is a tremendous flexibility to play as you wish, within the established framework. In my opinion, this is part of what makes many of those games as appealing as they are. People enjoy having the freedom to find their own path to success.
As rules are implemented which narrow the focus and remove some of these paths, you start to lose some of the broad appeal of the game. The Laborer's Guild change implemented is one of these types of changes. If people enjoyed playing in that way, and it was within the legal framework, then they should have been allowed to continue playing the style they enjoyed.
If that style was found to cause problems with the economy that negatively and materially impacted others, then perhaps it was the economic engine which needed adjustment instead of introducing changes which limit playstyle.
If that playstyle contributed to the abuse of multi's, then perhaps more vigorous enforcement of the existing rules was called for.
My point is that there always a multitude of options for addressing a given problem and in my opinion, the method chosen was not perhaps the best method. | 173
sorry fore the misunderstanding but
#battle/online player has increased
means that the quotient number of battle divided number of player on line an the same time...
I have seen so far values as high as 0.3 with half the player on line in battle at the same time in peak hours.
So, the LG rule has reached the stated objective of take up arms from time to time.
Right now:
414 battles, with 471 players and "only" 698 players on line. Almost 0.6.
Was this a "right" objective? I don't know.
Will it decrease or increase the numeber of players? Same anser :) | Continued post 166
This rule does encourage taking advantage of low level players through group battles. It doesn't encourage even group battles because even level group battles cost money. And you can't trust other players to not come in min-ap. Plus group battles take a long time to finish. When time is a factor.
And finally as a player who fights a lot per day but loses often even when trying, I am affected by this time 10 hour limit daily. Despite fighting every time I can.
And finally if this rule was created to help slow the broken economy it will not do that. Because theirs two reasons the economy is broken, one was in fact because of the low level multis but that is no where near as bad as gigantic gold dump. That exists in the game. Artifact shop, repair items, castle building. | And I'm sure that without workaholic rule the number of players would increase even more, because some players returned to this game to see if there is some new updates and were happy to see big changes, but disappointed of wokaholic rule and decided not to play anymore.
I just really don't think that fewer players came back to the game because they found that they could not enroll 10 times in a row without win without receiving a penalty.
I mean, really who cares.
- don't tell when to level-up (workaholic rule (unsuccessful try, the effect is the opposite), tieves rule with +100% xp, etc.),
Well that is absurd. Admins aren't telling you when to level up by GIVING you more experience for thief ambushes (which I'm sure high level players LOVE), and the workaholic rule is make lords of the empire fight for the empire, not just laze around and work in the mines. It makes sense.
- don't tell how many arts to wear (AP rule)
Again, a rule that makes sense. This isn't saying how many arts to wear, it is a safety rule. Lords must wear proper equipement while fighting.
I would make a really good business of this game. Believe me, this game needs only some small changes and I'm sure that it would have 10 times more players (per 1 year), which would give 8 times more sold diamonds.
If by this you mean you would abolish AP rule, bring back easy hunts, halve the XP from thieves guild, and end workaholic penalty, I would quit immediately. Why? Because this simply gears the game towards those who don't play it. Players like you, who do nothing but enroll. If you think that a game where you enter codes every hour and get money, then buy artifacts and be a smith and make weapons which nobody uses would catch on, trust me, you're dead wrong. | For MathProfessor:
ok, you've meant quotient, I misunderstood you.
So, the LG rule has reached the stated objective of take up arms from time to time.
This is a strategy game, which means that it's up to a PLAYER to decide whether he wants to fight or not.
Maybe he doesn't want to fight at all? I.e. the objective of workaholic rule was wrong in the first place?
This game is good, because there are other things to do besides fighting:
- be a gambler in two towers game
- be a gambler in roulette
- be a smither
- be an enchanter
- be a businessman (buy and sell goods)
- be just an enroller (like Tamplier)
- be a forum reader and writer
So, tell me, why every player has to fight? Why this is good if they don't want it?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to fight, but the rules stopped me. I'm just a summoned creature here now. And the workaholic rule is the spell "banish" cast on me. So, I might indeed banish forever.
Xerfer:
I just really don't think that fewer players came back to the game because they found that they could not enroll 10 times in a row without win without receiving a penalty.
I mean, really who cares.
Who cares? Me, for example, and many others like me. The number of such players isn't so small as you might think.
I hope that you really don't care, i.e. it doesn't matter to you if I will be level camper or not.
Again, a rule that makes sense. This isn't saying how many arts to wear, it is a safety rule. Lords must wear proper equipement while fighting.
This is a strategy game, so, naturally:
1) whether to fight or not it should be up to player to decide,
2) whether to wear arts or not, or how many, it should be also up to player to decide. | 178
- be a gambler in two towers game
If you are good you aren't affected. win games => win bets => no need fore more money, it would be nice, but you don't NEED it.
If you aren't good, LG rule cut your extra bets income => you try to play better OR you leave two towers (since you don't know how to play it).
- be a gambler in roulette
Same as above only not skill related. So you do need an alternative money source. LG rule hurt this tipe of play.
BTW the only positive thing about this type of play is that you bet here and not in a real roulette so no real money loss (unless you by diamond).
- be a businessman (buy and sell goods)
Not affected, since your income should be from your business activity.
- be an enchanter
- be a smither
If you mean enchant/repair for free/discount you get hurt, BUT maybe Empire doesn't want us to have cheaper enchant/repair.
If you mean make money with enchant/repair (I'm better than you but it cost... 110%, 120%...), same answer than business man.
LG rule makes more difficult to:
- pay for initial investment in high skill
- pay for initial investment in goods
- have a separated income source
- recover from business mistakes (sell at less than cost...)
- use special offers (losing money) to get a repeat client
- be just an enroller (like Tamplier)
LG hurt this type of play, but that WAS it stated objective.
- be a forum reader and writer
Not affected. The only rule to affect this type of play is: you can't post on the forum till combat level 3 :) | LG hurt this type of play, but that WAS it stated objective.
You don't get it, don't you?
The workaholic rule was WRONG in the first place, because there are many other ways to play this game than fighting.
Even if fighting is appreciated, forcing players to do that is a wrong way to achieve it.
I'm sure that many players play this game, because it doesn't take too much time as other very good games on the web.
The workaholic rule forces to spend more time, which isn't acceptable for some players. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
<<|<|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12Back to topics list
|
