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| Author | Laborers Guild |
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for OndaNera:
"whining"? are you ok with the head? don't use terms which meaning you don't know. whining is when you deny something without backing it with arguments. what part of the post 50 looks to you like such?
so, OndaNera apparently likes this part of the updates because... well... because she thinks 10000 people somewhere liked it. not much of a self opinion... ;} actually the truth is OndaNera doesn't like to face more and more innovative methods to be constantly gold-sucked but says she likes it. which is the exact definition of "dissimulation". here is another new term to learn :} | yeah, personally I find that particular change outweighs all the good in the entire reformation. No wonder it was sneaked in and not mentioned in the news.
I personally find that this particular change outweighs all the bad in the entire reformation. It deters people from just enrolling, without really playing the game (if you log on from some iPod just to enroll, you're not really playing). The real estate sales makes me realize how many filthy rich players are out there, the majority of whom aren't wizards who got their mini-arts refunds. If you really play, you shouldn't be able to hoard that much gold.
Besides, this is good for your social life. No more checking in every hour while you're at a party on weekends. Being able to enroll 12 times a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year can't be good for you. | Georgia, I think I know very well all the new terms you try to teach me ... without success of course ...
what I was saying, but you don't try to understand it, is that despite the updates (which I also don't like, at least some of them) people continue to play in Russia (sure, you could say that without the updates now Russia would be at 30000 players - probably 50% of them multi and financial assistant, but who cares???)
And people are whining a lot here because all factions have been nerfed (how can this be?)
And people are whining here because now we are forced to buy TGI with diamonds (this is a real bad trick)
And people are whining a lot because now we are forced to win a fight every ten enrolls (which at least makes life of multis a little bit harsher - Thanks Geryon ... really
And more and more ... now you understand? | besides, and sorry for double post, my opinion has been espressed already many times in others posts ... if you like, you can go and check ... or I can give you here a debrief:
- I LOVE the workaholic update because force people to actually PLAY this game and not just suck gold from mines (which are always gold-empty or refurbished by adms)
- I LOVE the workaholic update because it is a small step vs. cheaters that use multis to assist mains
- I understand the difficulty to win a MQ, or TA, or Hunt at very high level ... but I am pretty sure you can win some duels or GB ... so not so difficult in fact, and a push to do more PvP (which I also LOVE)
- I don't like the new rule on TGI, because now new players will have to buy it with Diamonds (and 80 euros is pretty some money :[ )
- I don't like how DE talent wheel has been changed (and I heard that laso other factions face a "crisis", so, maybe, this is actually a balancing)
- I don't care about estates, but if players are willing to be sucked out of money this way, well, who cares?
- I am looking fwd to the new events, and I love the new MQ, new hunts, etc.
I think this is more or less all ... and from one which is not OK with the head, you should admit is not too bad ;) | Guys, Try to keep it a bit more civil. And don't forget that admin decision is not supposed to be subject to discussion, so please don't condemn the update or anything along that line.
Instead of just talking about how bad you feel it is, why not start discussing what to do now in this new structure we are in. If life gives you lemons, start a Lemonade franchise and wholesaler chain.
LG changes (which the thread is about) is there to stop abuse which resulted in people that only enrolled for the past year being billionaires and still being level 3. It may affect your style of pay, but you can change to suit the new laws, can't you? Unless you are one of those that want to be Level 1 and LG rank 9....
So, please. Let's talk about how to proceed with life, not sit down and sulk on the path to a better game. | LG changes (which the thread is about) is there to stop abuse which resulted in people that only enrolled for the past years being billionaires and still being level 7. It may affect your style of play, but you can change to suit the new laws, can't you?
thx Takesister ... I could not think of a better way to tell this ... | Two BAD decision, IMO
1. Enroll in flash - you can't enroll from mobile
2. Payment down by *0.8 after 10 times enroll (*0.6 after 11 enroll, etc)
- if I play in work not always I can do battle, but may enroll and i.e. repair arts), after come back to home I may try win battle, but not ALL are winable. After change faction chance for victory rapidly goes down.
3. There may be also other situation:
Workoholic can't get enought gold (penality) for arts (miniAP, of full set), without atrs he can't do battle, or can't win without full set. It goet to:
No gold -> no victory -> penality (less gold) -> no arts -> no victory -> penality (less gold) ---> player ruined? | for LEVY:
Warning, do not make disparaging remarks like that. If you can't win a battle, maybe it's not the game's fault?
If you play seriously and well, you won't reach a point where you will not have gold and you can't win any battles. Plan ahead and know your options. If you really have no gold, loan some. If you have no weapons, borrow some, if you cannot win a fight, ask for assistance in a hunt or assist someone else.
No gold + no victory + workaholic penalty (less gold) -> borrow gold from friend -> able to buy/rent arts -> Able Assist someone in a hunt -> no workaholic penalty -> Able to enroll and get gold to pay back friend -> Happy player.
Change with the time, don't just stagnate and demand the world not move because you don't want to. | Who wants to log in 5 or 6 times a day to type in a code to have their cash increase, which is meaningless if they don't spend it on buying stuff to fight with? A multi.
I was saving money for my TGI.
There a times, when I just log in to get money, that I want to use later. | LG changes (which the thread is about) is there to stop abuse which resulted in people that only enrolled for the past years being billionaires and still being level 3. It may affect your style of play, but you can change to suit the new laws, can't you?
thx Takesister ... I could not think of a better way to tell this ...
I for one wonder why nothing was done to prevent low level millionaires (most likely alts) to buy estates. For example Tamplier.
I heard these alts were blocked in .ru prior to estate acutions.
Then again, this auction did what it was suppose to do... sucked so many people of their money for a 2.5 years investment... lol 2.5 years (assuming 5 stars) | | its hard for magic de to win antyhing at 13lvl except group, but i only had once *0.8 enroll and now im just after 9 looses creating duel 5-13lvl fight, there is always one happy low lvl player to fight against high lvl and it can give me next 9 fight looses, its not against rules too, maybe little nooby but it surely work for me | @Takesister why warning? this is discusion thread, and I only post my opinion (not personaly about me)
But ok take me in example.
I can get min.7k gold before penalities (10 enroll, laboler= 7, work in mines)
Almost full set cost ~1300 gold/battle (no new arts)
I can do 5 full set battle with this gold, 1 should I win (not too hard).
It's not too big problem for me, but what if I don't have time or possibility for battle? Admins push me to battle, when I don't "need" or can't.
Probably admins do it for 2 reason:
1. sell more arts, (money in production, easyest to get work)
2. cut money-makers players (posibble multi or cheater)
But cheaters, wont stop.
They may make deal:
"yo, friend lets do 2 duels miniAP (or without if possible) , 1 victory for you, 1 for me, and we still can "cheat" - enroll without penalieties).
Rule 3.16. (Staged combats) is not easy to prove.
And what with players who want save money for TGI or estates?
IMO, new changes goes in wrong direction.
It make more problems for players. | #72
true, it should be problem for cheaters and players who only enroll without playing and not directly for players who are playing regular battles, day after day...
but i know, we need to respect it, we cant change it, we wanted updates we have it and this is good, im sure its not so big problem after all, maybe after some time admins will change it maybe not | i hate this workaholic rule... i will complain with my current standing...
just got to TG2, returned leased TGI and my money is really low... it would be hard to get some wealth the normal way (not cheating, just enroll and trading), but this will be ridiculously hard, especialy with my arts worn down during the quest for TG2, some of them i must replace because not worth repairing...
10 enrollment and a successful battle, there were some unlucky battle series 5 or 6 loses and then a win... most of them is AFK on my group, unequally divided multiple level random battles, and "description-disregard" cheaters with fullArts... i read the changes, but for these no solution... how hard would it be to get a box for the maximum AP count to join the battle, or to bust constant AFKers or compensate somehow the losing party... i understand the word random and its ok not to join the battle if there is a possibility to misbalance the players...
i dont mind losing if its a good balanced fight and either side can win...
during a losing serie you enroll 2-3 times and decreases the efficiency, and u fight just because u !!!must!!! (admins told u to do so) win to get the penalty declined...
!!!noone should tell anybody when to fight!!!
renting arts LOL... best ground for cheaters...
so in compact: u lose money if u dont fight, u lose money if you fight by repairing, renting or buying Arts....
finally: this rule is not compensated in any ways to earn more money... (i know it would give workplace for cheaters) | We are talking about wage penalty after we enroll 10x without at least win 1 fight.
But, how about active players who fight more than 10x / day? Isn't it supposed to be an incentive (like +10% wage increase) to help in replacing broken arts? :p
After all, this is what Empire wants isn't it? (Lords keep on fighting instead of farming).
If we have a penalty system, I think we should have a reward system too :) | #75
+1
good idea | The best thoughts about Laborier's guild changes:
1) by Kancsika:
its all about money just as the "combat with weapon" rule... but thats realistic and acceptable... but dont tell me when to fight...
2) by Sirrius: #25 (the whole post is perfect)
3) by Kotrin:
I don't like this change either, for a simple issue: it makes high-level faction change EVEN harder (as it was too easy to begin with...)
4) by Georgia: #50 (the whole post is perfect, a genius mind)
5) by LEVY:
No gold -> no victory -> penality (less gold) -> no arts -> no victory -> penality (less gold) ---> player ruined?
It seems that the problem of new players is long forgotten. We are old players, but this server needs more new players.
But every update makes it harder and harder to play this game for a new player.
A very good and typical example is here (read the 1st post there):
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1868739
Question by OndaNera:
if all these updates are so bad, why in Russia they have 10000 on-line?
My answer:
Because there are too many fans (even millions) of HoMM series game in Russia and they will still play it, no matter how hard it will be. And creators of HeroesWM uses it very well. | My thoughts on the LG changes, and a small suggestion...
I enroll quite a bit, my running average since I started playing back in July (yeah, I'm still fairly new here) is about 11 enrolls per day. This is because I play primarily at work and I work fairly long hours... you may say that I'm a workaholic in real life as well. This change probably wouldn't affect me much, except for one thing... I play a lot during the week, both enrolling and fighting, but on the weekend I only enroll while I'm at home. This helps me cover the costs of my combats during the week and keep some gold around. During the week, I probably fight 10 - 15 times per day but on the weekend, it's rare that I fight at all.
The above leaves me with a dilemna... I am achieving what I believe the administration desires: I don't just enroll, I fight... a lot. However, despite meeting their goals, I will still end up subjected to the workaholic penalties on weekends since I will go more than 10 enrolls without a fight. If you look at my week in total though, I probably am averaging around 1 fight per enroll. This leaves my only real option of fighting less throughout the week so I don't need to recoup as much financially on weekends.
My suggestion: Instead of arbitrarily applying the workaholic penalty after 10 enrolls without a combat, apply it once the ratio (calculated on a rolling 7 day basis) of enrolls to combat victories falls below 10-to-1. This will allow greater flexibility of players to fight when they wish to do so without being forced to fight at certain points. As long as the player keeps an eye on their ratio, they can avoid the penalty with some planning.
An example: I know that for the next two days I will be busy and probably won't have time to fight very often. So today, while I have time, I will fight as often as I can. I end up fighting today and winning 10 times, I enroll 10 times. This gives me an enroll/victory ratio of 1-to-1. I can now enroll only for the next two days (assuming 10 enrolls per day) and end up safely with an enroll/victory ratio of 3/1, still safely unpenalized.
I realize that perhaps not many people play under the same odd schedule that I do, but I still think that this could allow many players a lot more flexibility in their playing while still meeting the overall goal of the administration. | mmm ... I think that:
- adms want to make money out of this
- the changes are likely to be in that direction no matter how much we whine
- nobody FORCES us to do anything, nobody FORCES us to play; if we don't like it, we can simply stop playing
- I still like this game more of any other I found on-line | LG changes (which the thread is about) is there to stop abuse which resulted in people that only enrolled for the past years being billionaires and still being level 7. It may affect your style of play, but you can change to suit the new laws, can't you?
That's my gripe with this new rule: if you are right about its intent, it completely fails to address the issue.
Case in point: Tamplier. So far, he barely fought to reach level 3 and has millions of gold. Now what will he do? Just do one of these white dots hunts once every ten hours to ensure maximum gain. He can do that for months before hunts become too hard (assuming he won't be level 4 meanwhile, and he can make hunt assists too). Wait, there's more! He can also decide to do mercenary quests and failing to report them in time. It just takes a convenient 10 hours, so 10 enrolls, to get a time out. In other words, he is COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED by the Workaholic rule!! Nothing more than an itch for him.
Case in point MKII: me, Kotrin. So far, I was fighting here and there casually to improve my Necromancer skill level. I'm a weak level 10 by all accounts, only faction skill 2 in Necro (not many skellies!). Now, I actually fight LESS because I carefully wait the right time to do the few mercenary quests I can still complete, to maximize my income. I know I can spend a week before succeeding in a hunt, and may easily be locked in the faction dead-end issue described above: too weak to win a fight, to poor to afford artifacts to win a fight.
It's good to promote group battles and disallow workaholic behavior, but it has to be done the right way. I'm sorry, I feel the change is a big fumble in this regard. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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