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| Author | Laborers Guild |
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I find it interesting. If you check players who post in this thread and
divide their LG / Combat level :
Most players who pros to the new LG have 0.5 or lower
Most players who cons to the new LG have more than 0.5
There are some exception, of course. That's why I said MOST. Not ALL.
It makes sense that the new LG rule have little impact on them and that's why they pros :) | #181
On the contrary, this rule affects those with the lower ratio much more than those with the higher ratio. Haven't you been reading? It's been generally agreed that this rule has little effect on people with low combat level. It would be a long time before combats become too difficult for them. It's the people with high combat level that are most adversely affected. | #182
On the contrary, this rule affects those with the lower ratio much more than those with the higher ratio. Haven't you been reading?
errr... excuse me. When did I say that it has high effect on LOW combat level? Read post #181 again before you reply, please..
What I say is the ratio between LG point and Combat level.
OK, if I have to give you an example :
Ondanera : LG4, Combat level 9
Jabbar : LG6, Combat level 13
MathProfessor : LG2, Combat level 5
vs
LEVY : LG7, Combat level 13
Robai : LG7, Combat level 7
Kancsika : LG6, Combat level 9
Kotrin : LG7, Combat level 10
You got the point ? Or Do I have to dig all the thread and give you more example? | sorry... wrong quotation for post #183
The correct one should be :
It's been generally agreed that this rule has little effect on people with low combat level | The quotient LGL/CL means nothing.
Why quotient?
Why not other two variable function f(x,y)?
For example, you could calculate which players made high values of this function
f(x,y)=x+2*y+sin(x*y)-exp(x-y),
where x=LGL and y=CL,
instead of this function
f(x,y)=x/y | :)
I am not trying to make a theory or anything. If you read the first sentence, I am just interested.
What I mean is:
IMO, Higher LG/CL means that you are doing more enrolling (maybe more than 10x / day). And these players can do many enroll without fighting. Thus, with the existence of the New LG rule... these players are 'forced' to change their playing style. At least 2 fights / day. (because they enroll more than 10x)
But for someone who usually only enroll 5x /day. They can fight once / day or even every day after. With the new LG rule, they don't have to change their playing style.
This is what I meant by 'have a little impact' on them. Not financially, but on whether they have to change their playing style or not.
Don't get me wrong. I am one of those who don't like the new rule. I have LG7 with Combat level 12. And I have to change my playing style. If you check my combat log, few days ago I was quite active fighting. But recently I fight less because it really drain my gold :( And today I only fought once. After this I will fight one more, and I will call it a day. | This is a strategy game, so, naturally:
1) whether to fight or not it should be up to player to decide,
2) whether to wear arts or not, or how many, it should be also up to player to decide.
But it is set in a medieval/fantasy kindgom, and the Empress wants all Lords to fight. Such is the setting of the game.
About wearing arts or not, would you prefer admin implemented that if you do not wear suggested arts, there is a 50% you lose your head and your character? (extreme example, but the idea is the same. You prefer an option with risks rather than a requirement, I assume?) | these players are 'forced' to change their playing style
You sound as if that is good 0.o
In a GAME, forcing people to a desired playing style is never good! Some quit the game, some are angry, some don't care. But people that like being forced to something, normally are not so often.
So, this rule annoys many many players! This game is named Lords of war and MONEY, so why is the ability to fullfill the one half of the gamename (money) drastically lowered?
Maybe one should change the gamename to "Lords of war only, who can't fight properly because they constantly lack of money". Gamemoney-making by the players seems not to be rated as high as realmoney-making by the admins (mainly they want players to spend real money for diamonds, which they exchange for gold).
The problem higher level players have with that rule is very strng, because they can't fight (and then even WIN) enough as they had to. GB's for example mean around 2-3 hours of time for them, and THEN only half of them has won :P
Aswell the only possible increase in their fighting capabilities comes from elements and their enchanted weapons. These things are much more expensive, so many of them won't be able to maintain their "powerlevel" for long.
Although winning 1 fight in 9 hours (10 times enrolling in a row mean effectively 9 hours of "playing") doesn't sound much, i think this law might result in some forced battles, which are "planned" to be won by some players, and next day the others will win. Admins restrictivity forces players to do such, whereas their main aim only was to gain some money :/
Just a tiny hint for the admins: 2500 gold for one diamond is a BIT low, thats 3 times enrolling (3 hours). Who is gonna spend 1 Euro/Dollar/whatever... for something he can achieve easily in 3 hours (+LG increase) | About wearing arts or not, would you prefer admin implemented that if you do not wear suggested arts, there is a 50% you lose your head and your character? (extreme example, but the idea is the same. You prefer an option with risks rather than a requirement, I assume?)
lol
In every game with heroes/... one can easily run around naked and the only disadvantage is to not have the effecty of ones equipment, why does it have to be different here?! Admins want players to have some basic moneysink. Now players are even forced to obey this moneysink!
The problem is that here are many players that are nearly endless rich (best proof are the prices that were bid on the estates, which give nearly no effect, but players are willing to pay 1 million for them). Estates were a much better moneysink as the LG-rule, because players could choose to pay it and were not forced, which results in them thinking they used their money for something usefull. Just stealing money from the players with no effect only results in controversial conversations and great disappointed/angry players.
But admins will soon achieve their aim (gaining money with little work), because the estate-buyers will soon see their mistake and regret having thrown so much money into the admins mouth for not even getting a great effect/bonus/ability :) | for I_own_you_all:
You sound as if that is good 0.o
Who?? me?? I never said that :)
I said:
Don't get me wrong. I am one of those who don't like the new rule.
But read what I wrote about LG/CL in post #181 and I think it is correct again so far to describe Xerfer and I_own_you_all :)
Xerfer (pros) : LG5, CL11
I_own_you_all (cons) : LG6, CL10 | I cannot agree that 1 win per 9-10 enrolls is difficult to make on any CL . Even for those , who changed faction and have serious problems hunting or thieving , there are a lot of mercenary quests easy to win , there are also an option mixture GB like 1-14 lvl where high levels have all chances to win . So , only ones who have a real trouble , are roulette losers who have not money even for min AP battle and , may be , it will teach them playing more careful .
It doesn't mean that I don't like enrolling , more than 6000 LG on 10th CL say enough =) But I also like fighting and have more than 5000 of its now . So , positive or negative interpretation of this update only depends on particular players , not from their LG/CL as someone said above . This update introduced only vs. those abusers , who want be a millionairies at first couple of CL and this , imho , is ok . | *sigh*
I didn't say that it depends on LG/CL :(
I just said that : my observation on *those who post in this thread* seems to show that the one who dislike the new rule have LG/CL > 0.5 and those who like the new rule have LG/CL < 0.5
Please read again post #181 (2nd sentence)
If you check players who post in this thread and
divide their LG / Combat level :
And what about you Elwira? You don't like the new rule too, do you?. And it is coincidence that you have LG7 and CL10 ?
It is right again isn't it ? :) | I agree there should be some kind of a penalty for enrolling only, maybe something like this would fit better in this game;
If your total fights < amount of enrolls, you cant enroll.
or
If your total amount of victories * C < amount of enrolls, you cant enroll.
C can be 1; 1,1; 1,5; or whatever the admins want. | 193:
That would make Robai scream:
"MIN AP RULE + 1 FIGHT FOR 1 ENROLL ARE YOU CRAZY THAT WOULD KILL THE GAME" | and you care about one single person out of the thousands that play this game?
Look at some profiles, most people got three times more battles than LG points.
So 99,9% of the people wouldnt even notice the difference, just those few people are enrolling 24 hours a day without fighting will get punished.
And thats exactly what the admins want, right? | ^^ But is that punishment warranted and just?
Is it punishment the admins are seeking, or altering the playstyle of their customers?
Some of the posters here seem convinced that players who enrolled only are deserving of punishment. Why is that? They played within the rules, so why punish them? I'm honestly puzzled at the negative sentiment expressed against people who achieved some measure of success by playing in a very niche style. Should we not applaud their creativity in identifying alternate paths to success in the game?
I do not ask these questions with any sarcasm, I genuinely wish to understand the negative sentiment and what drives it.
I've seen many, many games where people line up to take jabs at those who are successful, only to find themselves in exactly the same position in the not too distant future when the next "adjustment" to the rules is made. | Post 196
Well a large amount of people are trying to rationalize the admins rational for doing things. We assume it is a punishment, because if not its just unnecessary change which doesn't benefit the game. However it is seen as such a poorly though out punishment that it didn't affect its intended target what so ever. And instead affected those who don't deserve it. If it is meant to simply change the play style then it has succeeding in that and also making the game worse for no real reason other then to limit freedom in a game.
I am trying to remain neutral about this because I will adapt however people who say statements like real life need to remember games are not made to be real life. They are made to be what we do for fun or to pass the time or to focus on so we don't have to focus on real life. And that is what makes games most successful. My source for that statement is mmorpgs.
On top of this though many of us have pleasant conversation with mods. The admins never speak to us directly. And what we do receive is rp which though I appreciate leaves us largely in the dark on their motivations. Which leads to us lacking understanding of them. | I believe I have yet to post on this thread, but I have followed this thread and its posts earnestly.
Personally, I fight a LOT. I believe I wouldn't be far off to say I'm one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) to ever achieved my combat level(11) from time of character registration (and a lot of people have played this game). I Also enrol every opportunity I get.
Although the new labor rule have not affected me much (yet), I can see how this change may affect players of high combat levels.
There are basically a few ways one can win a battle:
1) Hunt: I'm only combat level, but if you check my logs, (except for those new hunts) almost ALL my hunts in the past 1-2 weeks are, ready for this.. 1st place knight records for my level(!). Yes, I managed to win most of them, but there's only coz I used my max enchanted arts (note that it's plural). Even with these arts, I probably would have skipped all of them if I weren't going for HG6.
Now, with the new enchanting rules, and the fact that most newer players wouldn't be able to afford enchanted arts till most probably very high level, how do you expect them to do hunts like these?
2) Quests: I'm lucky, I foresee I would need to have something to fall back on for gaining exp to level up when I (when I was still at low combat levels) read in the forums that at the highest levels, it's almost impossible to win a great % of our fights. I deliberately held back on leveling up too fast on my MG. But look around players of my combat level and higher, a very high % are at the stage where they can't win almost any of their quests. (Forget about the few new quests, it would take an active fighter a few weeks to max those out till they are undoable as well).
3) TG: Well, this probably cost the most gold to do actively. And at the highest level, don't even think about doing ambushes in min AP, chances are you will NOT win more than than a few outta every 100 ambush you do. And that won't do, with the new labor rule, is it?
4) GB: Probably the 1 way you have a 50% chance to win a battle, IF you can afford to spend 1-2 hours playing one. And not every one spend that much time daily on this game.
5) Duels: Almost non-existent at high combat level. And even if 2 players do play, it's easy enough to 'manupilate' the result (or gives the impression of it), and thus runs the risk of getting a fine/ban for it.
Most of us would remember a former #1 player, Kiaune, left this game for 1 reason - He was SICK of losing. And mind you, it's not that he wanted to lose. I'm sure all of us would agree that it gets really demoralizing when one try his best to win, and yet can't win the majority of one's fights. Imagine if Kiaune is still around, trying his best to win battles, and then along comes the new rule that if he don't win a fight in 10 enrols, he will be penalized for it(!?)
If you are a player like in Kiaune's position, how would you feel? It would probably hasten your decision to quit, wouldn't it? | To add,
Although I don't quite understand or like the level campers and the 'just-enrol-and-don't-fight' method of playing, I really personally don't think they should be penalized for the way they are playing the game.
One can argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is - they didn't break the rules. Why should they be punished? What kind of community are we if we 'condemn' and penalize everything we disapprove of? That's kidda elitist, isn't it?
From what I heard (please correct me if I'm wrong), millionaires over at .ru below a certain combat level are blocked (yes, block!) when new rules were implemented a few months back.
Imagine if a player joins this game a year ago, read the rules, and found nothing to say he can't just enrol and don't fight. Now let's say he wants to be the strongest Wizard character in the game, and to do that, he know he would need a lot of gold for all the triple mini-arts, arts and enchants. He started drawing up this great master plan that he would enrol till he have say, 2 million gold, then he would start to play aggressively, with gold for mini-arts, arts and enchant not a concern for him.
He then sacrifice more than a YEAR of his precious time enrolling every opportunity he gets. On many occasion, the urge to start fighting actively filled him, but he resisted the temptation, and told himself to persevere with his plan. Then when he's almost near his goal, along came this rule and.. BAM! - his character gets blocked... for having too much gold(!?).
Did he break any rules of the game? No. Why should anyone be punished for READING the rules, and abiding by them? Absurd.
What if there comes a day, a new rule says that a player can't have more than 2 enchanted arts, coz you are unbalancing the game, and have an unfair advantage over other players, and anyone who does will get blocked? And you are one of them? Wouldn't you be really pissed?
Or what if a new rule say a player can't have more than 10 elements, coz you are not stimulating the economy, and anyone who does, will get blocked?
Sounds ridiculous? Yes, probably to most of us. But to someone who plays the game by just enrolling (wasn't breaking any rules as far as the game goes), the penalizing/blocking (over at .ru for now, but who knows if it will be implemented here) of a character just coz he's rich and don't fight is just absurd, in my humble opinion.
If what happened over at .ru is indeed true (can someone verify this please), then it's the first time in all my years of playing online games that I have ever come across player(s) being punished for not breaking the game rules. | | Well, I don't think it is a punishment. Empress wants lords to fight, simple as that. So go fight! |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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