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[Mirror] Lords&Heroes. FSP gap.


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Author[Mirror] Lords&Heroes. FSP gap.
I think there is very low chance for free fsp or fsp bonuses, but we should get our exp decreased, especialy those who were playing Thieves guild and getting over 10k exp/fsp. Now because of too much exp, combat level is higher than of respective .ru player who did same amount of same kind of battles.
just killed 5 skill necro with silver partisan muahaha
Only when Alice has atleast 1.6 times more fsp than bob.Real my postabout it again. The difference needs to be very huge for effect to take place.And the effect would wither off when alice has only 1.6 times normal fsp. And bob wld stop receiving benifit when his fsp is 1.6times less than avergae. So in total Alice can have 2.56 times fsp of bob EVEN IN THE LONG RUN. NOTE_Alice and Bob can fsp farm not just bob.

http://lgnd.ru/stat/average

Alice has at least 6000 FSP. If the site I posted is up to date then 1.6x average at CL 13 is 5945 FSP which means Alice is already affected by the mechanic. Alice is already gaining more XP per battle as we speak. Bob is not getting any benefits but Alice is getting punished. Say they both kill 100 skeletons 10 times in a row. Say each battle normally gives 1000 XP for 1 FSP. Let us assume the XP "bonus" is equal to 10%. By the end of 10 battles Bob will end up with 10 FSP for 100000 XP while Alice will have 10 FSP for 110000 XP. If they both farm the same battles Bob will have the advantage of not getting extra XP that Alice does unless if Bob himself also manages to reach 5945 total FSP. I really do not know how you came up with 2.56 x the FSP of Bob...

Then what kind of reason do you need!They had battles which gave better fsp/exp. They didn't have to do CG since there were events which gave much better fsp/exp even with min AP.

I prefer being sure. Events, I can ignore. We should focus more on game basics. TG difference is one, the lack of HG and MG variety is another although we could probably catch up on this.

Your logic is twisted. If a worker has received to little salary for a long time and then gets compensated later and receive the money it is not "free". We have played the same battles and received worse ratio how is that fair?

Participating in events may mean more FSP but it may also mean less guild points so the salary gap may not even be there. It looks to me like they were paid in different currency than we have been. I have more HG and MG points than that Alice character I mentioned and I have less than half his XP. I'm not saying guild points give more advantage than FSP but guild point advantage with the current mechanic seems easier to maintain than FSP advantage. Ratio for CG, MG, and HG are the same for both servers as far as I know. I do not dispute that we need some kind of compensation for horrible TG. I'm more of a guild point freak than FSP freak so that may be the reason why I don't share your preoccupation with the FSP gap and events.
I really do not know how you came up with 2.56 x the FSP of Bob...


Let's say Y is the average FSP in a particular level. If Bob has the minimum Y/1.6 FSP he won't gain any FSP bonus. Also if Alice has the maximum Yx1.6 FSP she won't gain more XP. So Alice will have (Yx1.6)/(Y/1.6)=2.56 more FSP than Bob (that's the maximum difference between them that can be achieved in the long run which is not too low I think).

You may not understand it but that doesn't make it not true, isn't math great :P
for Erekose:

I was talking about real players, I assumed he was too. I don't know how Bob could possible manage getting to Y/1.6 even at CL 14 (3373 FSP real value). XD
EXACTLY!!! I don't know how Bob could possible manage getting to Y/1.6

If a ***BAD*** player can not manage to get Y/1.6, it means the 1.6 parameter is too 'loose or wide' to investigate / normalise / regulate extreme in fsp.

This INability of parameter (1.6) to function means NOTHING will get regulated if all players are given the same opportunities i.e. those at fsp*1.6 limit will stay at high fsp/exp while those at fsp/1.6 limit will stay at low fsp/exp... and this means a maximum HUGE 2.56 GAP!

As I explained in post 128, this merge has been disastrous to competitive .com PvPers.
I saw a lot of ru players just imagine how noob .com players are. You guys are totally wrong.

Give one single example:

I met this person in minor tour

https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?id=1458576

He has 6000 more fsp than I. I have no chance to win, since I'm DE 10 vs. DE 11. I don't think I'm a noob player. I got medals for most touraments I joined in .com, including PVP tourament.

Fsp gap is huge. I don't want to play this game any more if nothing is done. No chance to win a duel with 6000 less fsp. For high level player, it's a huge deal. Everyone in our clan is complaining about that. Lots of people were hoping admin can do something, but we are quite disappointed at this moment.
The factor of 2.56 is the largest possible difference in theory that 2 players can have without fsp/exp bonus or penalties. Truth is, most .com players have about 4k fsp when they hit CL 14.

As I posted in #62,
N.B. The [x/1.6,x*1.6] interval is too wide to be of any real help. Substitute x with 5k FSP, and players from 3125 FSP to 8k FSP are all on the same playing field.

Which means, in the context of CL 14, practically no .com player is affected by this at all. (Show me a CL 14 from .com with less than 3k or more than 8k FSP).

Alice is a .ru native and the top Necro for FSP at CL 13 with 6882.73 FSP. Bob is from .com with 3187.17 FSP on Necro faction.

Well, we don't have to come to specific examples if we can all see the big picture.

When it comes to FSP, clearly, Alice is the leader but when it comes to HG points Bob wins. Of course, HG levels do not give as much advantage as faction skill levels
So Alice still wins. Even if Bob's HG was higher than Alice's (which isn't the case currently).

but considering that the new mechanic now "rewards" you with more XP the more FSP you already have, Alice's FSP advantage may not be maintainable in the long run
The mechanic doesn't give more XP the more FSP you already have. It's a step-function - with very wide steps, so Alice can easily maintain the advantage.

while Bob's HG point advantage can be maintained forever.
Not counting assists or special hunts, everyone earns HG the same way: 1 point for 1 victory. Stack size increases the same for everyone too. So there is a limited number of points you can get.
Just because Bob decided to earn those HG points earlier doesn't give him an advantage that can be maintained forever. They are only maintained until Alice decides to earn them too, which is only a matter of time / preference.
Anyway, HG levels do not give as much advantage as faction skill levels.

The new mechanic assures that Bob will get better FSP/XP ratio in all events and battles from now on.
At the moment, yes. But not once they hit CL 14 (which is soon) and Alice will no longer be penalized by the mechanic. Yet she will still be a good 3k fsp ahead.

Conclusion: we have the mechanics on our side to close the FSP gap but they don't have any help to close the HG and MG gap.
Lol? Who's talking about MG gap now? Let me rephrase: Why should there even be a HG and MG gap? And why does it matter when they, even when combined, do not give as much advantage as FSL?

I am very puzzled by your logic, Grusharaburas.
At the moment, yes. But not once they hit CL 14 (which is soon) and Alice will no longer be penalized by the mechanic.

Alice is currently approximately 1.6k FSP short of Y*1.6 for CL 14 (8635 FSP). She will have a short rest and then there will be more bonus XP at CL 14. XD

They are only maintained until Alice decides to earn them too, which is only a matter of time / preference.

But she will have extra XP for her hunts. We will always be ahead of them in terms of HG/XP. The ones who have >Y*1.6 FSP, anyway. Same with MG.

This INability of parameter (1.6) to function means NOTHING will get regulated if all players are given the same opportunities i.e. those at fsp*1.6 limit will stay at high fsp/exp while those at fsp/1.6 limit will stay at low fsp/exp... and this means a maximum HUGE 2.56 GAP!

https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=510491407
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=510187150
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=510165716
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=509728684

Alice has been consistently getting more XP in battles that give exactly the same FSP for her less endowed brethren. I really cannot see how the maximum 2.56x FSP gap is maintainable...

I am very puzzled by your logic, Grusharaburas.

I'm bored and I want to be proven wrong. I want to be wrong on this debate. XD
humm
at level 12 fsp 9 + fsp in other faction is ok but fsp 10
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?id=2422155

what can i do against it?
you cant do anything.
just enjoy the unfairness of the system and lose your battles and tournaments.
im a victim too, despite my super strategy and poor stats i almost won the minor tourney (only 3 losses to some insane OP stat builds like this faction 10 guy with tg 7 and faction resistance to others and crazy guild bonuses)
Player banned by moderator Lady Laitha until 2013-02-08 21:31:33 // remember to post with your main//1 min warning
oh i forgot you can. painfully work on your fsp ratio in hunts, tg, mg, lg, for the next 50,000 hours of your life ;)
I really cannot see how the maximum 2.56x FSP gap is maintainable...

Extreme example:

Player A: a badly trained character with extremely low fsp/exp near the fsp/1.6 limit

Player B: an elite with > fsp*1.6 limit.

Both players play same number and type of matches per day.

Player A grows normally.
Player B gets bonus exp and eventually reaches fsp*1.6 limit (ravaging any lesser characters while VERY slowly being normalised). then GUESS WHAT!!!

Any matches after that player A and B grows normally.

Sure the gap will be less due to the new normalised fsp mean, but elite players will indefinitely maintain high fsp*1.6 limit.


That by itself is OK, elites are elites. But where does .com elite fit in??

See MY POST 128 (you keep avoiding this, do you?). .COM elites are about 16% higher than .ru average while .ru elites are MORE than 40% better than .ru average.

WHy are .COM elites ONLY slightly better than average .ru???
Proving this gap would be so easy if I could get experience and total faction points for .com and .ru players at each combat level.


Can some one help? How to extract those data from database?
Today in one of cg battles,my russian teammate said to me:

Why you have so much exp and so little fsp

:S
I love the merge! - Having said that PVP IS broken for 95% .com players that are mid to high levels. (Lvls 1-8 dont seem to be as much of a problem) We can participate and have fun, but dont plan on competing to win. I was one of the highest fsp necros for my level. Now I am bottom of the barrel. Try being a necro and facing a necro with an identical army that has 1 more faction lvl. His extra stats plus 40 extra skeles make it futile. I still find myself being tempted to start over and build a new character, but i cant stomach the idea of losing everything I put into this one. I have read the opinion of lots of players. I would love to hear the Admins position on this. Either they are looking into doing something about it so we can hope for a change or the case is closed and we should just deal with being fodder for .ru. This would help me plan what I want to do with this character.
I was one of the highest fsp necros for my level.

You still are :). You are above average, don't see why you complain..
I turned CL 13 yesterday, never did PVP (accept thiefs), I have without doubt the lowest FSP ratio of ANY lvl 13. The .RU players I encounter must be laughing hard time :D!

On .com I was convinced I would 'learn' to love pvp after merge. Now there's just no starting for me. Doing duels with players that have twice as much(if not 3times) FSP as me is really depressing. So I guess I'll stay doing PVE and forget about PVP :).

Go on, laugh with my FSP, as do I, I've learned to live with it, I guess..
The new mechanism can help bob (ensures after hundreds of battles) to get (avg fsp)/1.6 while Alice will atleast have 1.6*(avg fsp) .So intotal Alice will have 1.6*1.6 = 2.56 times fsp of bob.

Sorry, but you didn't get it. There are twenty .ru/Alice-players for each .com/Bob-player.

There is no way that this minority will affect the FPS so that the .average ru-player will hit the mark of 1.6 more of the average. UNLESS the average of the .com-player is 13.6 times higher than the average .ru-player.

You must be drunk to think that the .com player have 13.6 times more FPS than the .ru players.
I can't understand why exp/fsp ratio has to differ between different types of combat in the first place.
I think many problems would be avoided with a constant ratio.
You still are :). You are above average,

That is simply not true. I looked up 20 random necros that were lvl 11. I was in the bottom 3. When doing the same sample on .com I was in the top 3. I was in the top 3 on .com because I tried to only do activities that offered a good FSP ratio. Had I been on .ru this whole time and still trying to manage my fsp/xp ratio as I did on .com I would be faction lvl 9 like many of my competitors are.
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