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Wizard faction topic


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AuthorWizard faction topic
seriously which is better..

6attack + 4%initiative (makes the difference for magi to strike first)

4spellpower
i see there is no discussion because most magi seems to prefer 1 spellpower over 2 defense and such..
321: I dont understand what you mean. Why are you compare miniarts on magi with spell power ?

322: Btw, for pvp i have used balanced set with enough defense, not only max spell power and knowledge arts. For pvm (hunts, MQ) you dont have to have so high defense and u can use arts for max spell power and knowledge.
i mean the choice between the +2 speelpower rings and the +3 attack +2% initiative..
i know 1 spellpower is better than 1 attack.
but is 1 spellpower better than 1,5 attack and 1 initiative ? in pvp.
324: Ok, now i understand what you want to know.

Attack and initiative are almost useless stats for caster wizard, so ring with +3 attack +2% initiative is waste of money and ring with spell power is only right choise for ring slot.

But for wizard with might buid is attack important stat and here is ring with +attack right choise.

322: For PvE is spell power usually better then defense and could be, that +1 spell power is better then +2 defense. But this is not true for pvp, where you have to survive too enough for be able to do max damage.

For pvp i have used combination of arts with high defense and arts for casters with spell power and knowledge. For full arts battles is very good Steel set (Steel helmet, Steel cuirass, Steel boots) + defender shield and rest of caster arts (rings, cloak, necklase, weapon). Wizard in full caster arts (which have lower defense) is very weak in pvp (especially with pve talents) and he die very quicky.
im not sure if attack is useless.. even as caster wizard on lvl 9 you do half your damage in melee.. with 11 djinn and 65 gargs stack. if you have a survival build (low magi, high golems)....... even the golems benefit from the attack bonus. and initiative makes those magi strike first.
Look at this battle against an elf (at lvl 8): https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=18356110 . I don't know exactly what should I improve. I think maybe another troops settlement (so efk's won't kill magis that easy). But what else? Do you have any ideas or combats against elves at lvl 8?
@327

tactical tipps:

- hurt unicorns with magic punches
- kill them with your genie & gargs, or just use !defend! with your melee units (situational)

**omg** tips:
- omg dont poison the bowmen when you finish them in the same turn. (use djinn spell on FK)
- omg dont fly away when your predators will still reach you. defend is always better.
if you dont use magic punches to kill unicorns first he will have magic shield till the end.. the additional round of bowman fire is not that evil in comparison.
magic punch damage on unicorns has a higher ""value"" because the damage your hero deals is reduced by the magic shield..
I think that you should focus on killing one thing at a time...instead of choosing so many targets.
326: Attack is less important stat for caster wizard, trust me. If you can have any +attack bonus, it is good, but no instead of other 3 stats. "Survival" build is not strictly low magi and high golems, but it depends on total nubmer of hp and other things. I dont want write here the same things again and again. If you want play your own play style, you can. But in pvp with little skilled players you will be defeated.

327: You started fight good, but later you did few mistakes. First of all, it was min ap battle and for this battle your basic defense 2 is realy weak and your talents was not right too. Problem in min ap battle for wizard is, that caster arts have too much ap per stat and you need spell power and defense too. So for min ap battles is good use "normal" non caster arts first, and then we can add any caster art, if we still have any ap left. Weapon is less important art for this types of battle, but of course, you cannot fight without weapon. So choose weapon with min ap (Wooden sword with 1 ap, or max Steel Blade with 2 ap, no more). Now we have to improve defense. Very good is Defender shield (+3 defense and 3 ap). With Defender shield is your defense 5, what is not the best, but much better than 2. So, we have weapon and shield which cost 4 ap and we can add any caster items now. Wizard cap and Cape of spirits is good choise. Each of them costs 2 ap, so with weapon and shield you have 8 ap.

Now talents. It looks, that you had erudition + intellect, what is good for hunts, but not optimal for pvp. You have more spell power and more mana, but very slow casting speed. Basic sorcery + Advanced sorcery + Mana recovery is better talents for pvp. Yes of course, you will have "only" 40 mana and not so high spell power, but pvp is not hunt where you have to a lot of mana for a lot of spells. In pvp you have to do max damage as quickly as possible. With sorcery your turn will be more often, what is more damage in few first turn to enemy units and less damage from them to your units. With 40 mana you can cast 8 lightnigs, or 10 magic arrows and for 8 (10) turns you will get 7 (9) mana back from Mana recovery talent. With erudition and intellect you have mana for more spells, but slow casting speed and no recovery. You still can fly away with gargs and wait for +1 mana each turn.

Now your linked battle.
You started good with punches on bowmen and lighting on efk (was lucky with poison too). Then you started spliting damage to more units, what is usually not very good idea. When bowmen died, you should focus all your spells on efk. Your the worst thing was killing druids with spells. Druids were not dangerous for you. If you would stay on long range, almost unimportant unit on battlefield. 3 spells wasted on druids could kill unicorns or efk. Next mistake was charging with gargs to attack. Yes, you had 60 gargs and number of efk was lower, but still, you need survive as much as possible and give time for your hero. Elf has better initiative and can go twice before gargs. With luck and favoured enemy can lower your gargs very quickly. You died with 1/3 of mana. If you would survive with your gargs you could kill efk and unicorns with your spells without any problem. Raise on the end of battle was only waste of mana, especialy if efk could hit both, gargs and genies. Raise is spell for specific use and not so good for pvp.

Next time take more defense arts, "pvp talents" and focus on killing dangerous units (bowmen and efk first), druids at last.
331 is partly right.. very mainstream tactics.. good vs most newbies :) not very reliable though, when the elf knows how to play against us wizards (most do not hehe)

mistake#1
many recovery vs an elf? with 40 mana? thats only 8-10 additional mana.. less than one point of knowledge. intellect would equal 2 knowledge..
and you just cant fly away with gargs to recover mana vs an elf.
it would take 10 turns to catch up with intellect.

correct#1
you should use defender shield in min arts, and some other effective stuff like he mentioned. you can use more defense as well instead of spell power because defense gain would be twice as much on min ap..
such things make your make stack survive a bowman attack for example.. you just dont see the benefits as apparant as with the direct spell damage..

mistake #2
advanced sorcery instead of erudition? 10% casting speed is not better than 2 spellpower at this level. and spell power makes your mana last longer.. compared to sorcery

correct #2
yes druids should be killed last. (ok but sometimes its good to attack them when your gargs have nothing better to do this turn - for example while flying out of EFK/Unicorn range)

mistake#3
kill bowmen and EFK first?
how are you going to kill EFK, while you leave those unicorns alive all the time? do you really think that magic aura is "nothing" and you could just "Kill" the efk with spells while they benefit from the unicorns magic proof aura? ok.. i just imagine you kill the EFK even though they have 30% magic proof.. how are you gonna kill the unicorns? lol you will be out of mana or dead before you get the chance to.
the only way to kill unicorns without "losing" damage due to magic shield is magic punches of your magi. (you said maximum damage is importan eh ? )

correct#3
yep charge with gargs, and the raise were not the best choice. (in fact really bad :D but he had not much experience i think)

correct#4
ok magi are really better than basic golems..
Thanks a lot for advices. Hope I'll be able to battle with him again until he levels up. BTW, the last raise was just for fun, I was dead anyway ( and I don't care if he took more xp ). I know I did some mistakes with gargs. And now I'll concentrate on unicorns with magi more ( but I still don't understand something: elven bowmen needs to be killed almost first. btw, I'll try your strategy too ). About arts, we specified to have 12 ap. I wanted to take a shield but it was 3ap so I took the master hunter boots ( to have magis before his druids: till now elves killed my magi with druids - so will I kill the elven with my hero?).
Thanks again for advices.
TBI
Hey guys,

I realized something kind of a good tactic to do when playing with monsters in mercenary.

When you are alone with gargs, then hide in a corner and the units will obviously chase you and surround u (unless shrews or something) and it gives you more chance to survive, rather than running around

Here is an example. It looked like total loss for me...UNTIL...my plan was thought of!
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=486423458

If it's not good, please explain! Thanks
for LordWizard-y:

That was easy battle, no need to run gargs around.

Also, remember that running is totally useless agains fast/high ini opponents. Especially against elves-brigands who has lot of spites/fks.
yeah but u use the high weak initiative opponents to surround u 3 sides instead of 8...plus. u dont get attacked by unicors or the 28 fk in the beginning.
Mmm.. a good start to your wizard career?
@333 TBI
yes you should kill the bowmen with your hero.
actually i believe you can use magi to help kill the bowmen quick.. if you want. its a close decision. but when they are dead the next punch target has to be unicorns :). and dont waste 51 damage punches on a stack of 3 bowmen.. :) .. remember 51 damage is almost one dead unicorn.

@334 lord-wizard
yes it is a good tactic, to get surrounded by weak non retaliation units to survive .. or leave one spot open to fight the "real" enemies but always plan who you let into the gap to attack you, that stack shouldnt be too strong :)
if your spikes dont kill them you can even weaken the sprites more to survive longer..
Just turned to might wizard , it is turning out to be awesome in caravans and vs players . elfes no longer trouble due to magic sheild , they are like a breeze of wind .

https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=486436201

Might is awesome for ambushes and stuff
332: No offense Wurmtog, but are your words only theorycrafting, or have you got "real" playing experience as wizard ? "My" tactics is not mainstream, but effective tactics in pvp.

Mistake 1 ?
My choise is Mana Recovery talent, because you have to have sorcery and with advanced sorcery you dont have enough point for Intellect. Yes, you will have less mana than with intellect, but with sorcery more effective used mana.
You cannot say in general, that intellect is better than mana recovery, because for some fights is mana recovery better talents. For example against slow units with low initiative, or large units when gargs are in a corner, when your mana pool with intellect is not enough for kill all of them. For pvp is mana recovery really good too, because when you kill more opponents very soon thanks to fast casting, later you can run with gargs and wait for your mana. If you have a lot of mana and you will die in half mana not used because your slow casting, then you large mana pool is useless ...

Mistake 2 ?
Yes, advanced sorcery instead of erudition, because wizard without fast casting speed is dead wizard. Do you know how Sorcery works ? It is not only +xx % casting speed, but after each spell (except mass spells) hero will have his turn +xx% faster, so he moves forward by ATB-scale. Practically your hero can "jump" few units after each spell which he used. So after few turns your hero will move twice more than wizard without sorcery, and he can do more damage in short time. If he is able to do max damage in short time, then enemy units will be in less number when they will attack your units = less damage to your units = more time for your hero = victory in battle.

I really saw a lof of wizard with pve talents (mostly erudition + intellect) in pvp. They usually died with more than half of mana. This type of wizard is dangerous only in battles, if no one will go for him. So at the end of fight he has almost untouched gargs, enough mana and on battlefield is not any unit, who can kill his gargs. But if this happens, opponents of this wizard played bad. PvE wizard is really easy kill, especially because most of them have full caster items with low defense. Yes, his spells hurt, because his high spell power, but his casting speed is so slow, that he is not able to do enough damage until his units will be dead.


If we make as example linked battle:
Enemy units = efks (492 hp) + unicorns (342 hp) + bowmen (240 hp) + druid (340 hp) = 1414 hp for elves

with erudition and intellect is spell power 10 and 60 mana:
60 mana = 15 magic arrows or 12 lightings
1 magic arrow = 104 damage x 15 = 1560 damage with 60 mana
1 lightning = 121 damage x 12 = 1452 damage with 60 mana

with sorcery and mana recovery is spell power 7 and 40 mana (if he will use Wizard hat and Cape of spirits as i wrote in previous post):
40 mana = 10 magic arrows or 8 lightings
1 magic arrow = 80 damage x 10 = 800 damage with 40 mana
1 lighting = 88 damage x 8 = 704 damage with 40 mana
After 7 (or 9) turn thanks to mana recovery we will have 2 more arrow with 160 more damage or 1 lightning with 88 more damage.

So after the same number of turns:
first talent build (erudition + intellect) will do max 1560 damage
second talent build (sorcery + mana recovery) will do max 960 damage

Now if we look at these numbers, first talent build looks like clear winner, right ? Only damage from wizards mana pool is more than hp of all units (1560 > 1414).

Magi can do any damage too. Splited to 4x3 groups they can do 4 x 3x43 = 516 damage in one turn (and all magi did damage in 1 turn).

With spells and if magi will do damage in first turn is damage with first build 1560 + 516 = 2076. Other units like gargs, golems and genies can do any damage too. Sometimes magi can do damage in second turn, but it doesnt matter.

So, with wizards spells + damage from magi + damage from other units is wizards damage much mo
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